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Tommy John - Not If, but When?
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:08 am
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:08 am
After the Edwards news -- making it three pitchers on our roster who've had TJ this season, I was curious how widespread the surgery is.
With these kids playing so much ball at a young age, and throwing harder and harder -- it's getting pretty nuts how common the UCL injury has become.
In last year's draft -- 8 of the top 100 prospects were STILL recovering from the surgery!
This is just a part of baseball now, and having enough pitching depth to sustain multiple UCLs is going to become a requirement to compete for titles.
But it sucks.
With these kids playing so much ball at a young age, and throwing harder and harder -- it's getting pretty nuts how common the UCL injury has become.
In last year's draft -- 8 of the top 100 prospects were STILL recovering from the surgery!
This is just a part of baseball now, and having enough pitching depth to sustain multiple UCLs is going to become a requirement to compete for titles.
But it sucks.
23
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:09 am to GeauxATX
Saw an article from this past year that claimed 1/3 of mlb pitchers have had it and the number is growing.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:15 am to GeauxATX
Mahtook touched on that point in the Milazzo interview. Kids are throwing more pitches, throwing harder, and creating more torque on the elbow/forearm. You're not seeing the shoulder issues as much anymore. It is mainly UCL which is repairable and seems more forgiving once healed.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:15 am to crewdepoo
quote:
Saw an article from this past year that claimed 1/3 of mlb pitchers have had it
I’m surprised it’s that low.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:21 am to GeauxATX
Originally, doctors and coaches thought it was bad mechanics. Then it became overuse and curve balls. Pitch limits were put in place. Nothing has changed. It’s only gotten worse.
The real culprit is “good” mechanics. Throwing harder than ever because kids from a young age have been taught how to get the most out of their body. And that means pushing the UCL to the limit… and sometimes beyond. There’s often no warning when it happens. It could come late in a game, the first inning of a fall ball practice, early in a season, late in a season. Eventually, the ligament can’t take the stress. You’re either lucky enough to avoid it or you tear it and get the surgery that has worked for countless others.
I honestly don’t think there’s any real prevention as long as velocity is a premium.
The real culprit is “good” mechanics. Throwing harder than ever because kids from a young age have been taught how to get the most out of their body. And that means pushing the UCL to the limit… and sometimes beyond. There’s often no warning when it happens. It could come late in a game, the first inning of a fall ball practice, early in a season, late in a season. Eventually, the ligament can’t take the stress. You’re either lucky enough to avoid it or you tear it and get the surgery that has worked for countless others.
I honestly don’t think there’s any real prevention as long as velocity is a premium.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:23 am to Willie Stroker
1/3 pitchers are TJ veterans
According to article the number went from 1/7 to 1/3 between 2012 and 2022
According to article the number went from 1/7 to 1/3 between 2012 and 2022
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:30 am to GeauxATX
Jaxton pitches 300 innings playing from January to August for the 12U Dingers
This post was edited on 5/3/23 at 11:29 am
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:34 am to tke_swamprat
quote:
Mahtook touched on that point in the Milazzo interview. Kids are throwing more pitches, throwing harder, and creating more torque on the elbow/forearm. You're not seeing the shoulder issues as much anymore. It is mainly UCL which is repairable and seems more forgiving once healed.
This may be a dumb question or it may be a billion dollar idea but is there not a brace or something that exists or can be invented that supports the UCL while a pitcher pitches?
It seems dumb to continue to do the same thing over and over knowing the eventual result without trying to solve the issue. Clearly pitchers aren't going to throw softer so the only solution I can see is to create a piece of equipment that supports the ligament and/or diverts the force.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:37 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
This may be a dumb question or it may be a billion dollar idea but is there not a brace or something that exists or can be invented that supports the UCL while a pitcher pitches?
It seems dumb to continue to do the same thing over and over knowing the eventual result without trying to solve the issue. Clearly pitchers aren't going to throw softer so the only solution I can see is to create a piece of equipment that supports the ligament and/or diverts the force.
LINK
kinetic arm
and plenty of devices, mainly the armcare.com app that can help you identify days when you are at risk of injury
yes ucl can be prevented for many(not all)
i just wrote long post about this in the "quality of pitching" thread right below this.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:37 am to Bert Macklin FBI
That’s actually a cool idea. I would imagine something like that would limit velocity, but if the tradeoff is not injuring yourself im sure players would wear it
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:40 am to lsu777
OK since this product exists why do more players not use it? I mean our baseball players wear oven mitts while running the bases to avoid a jammed finger but our pitchers don't wear a kinetic sleeve to avoid UCL tears?
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:43 am to ell_13
quote:
I honestly don’t think there’s any real prevention as long as velocity is a premium.
Prevention is building the body around it and arm care. Joe Blow can get you to throw harder, no matter your shape or size. But, it's really all in how you go about doing it and what you're doing in between sessions that can keep you from going under the knife. You need ample leg and core strength to take stress off of your arm at that much violence. Then, you need to properly care for your arm/body after (ice, rest, scraping, stretching, heat therapy, compression, etc).
The problem is that for every 1 kid getting the proper instruction and care, you have 9 others that are trusting in Joe Blow.
Overuse is still a problem, even with pitch limits. You have kids pitching for travel on the weekend then for rec ball during the week. Each has a limit, but they're really throwing double the limit. You also have most kids playing 2-way, some pitcher and catcher. So, they're pitching double the limit, throwing the limit again across the diamond or even back to the pitcher from behind the plate. The only solution here is for coaches and parents to be way more aware.
I think we're past the point of no return, though. Kids/parents just want to blow it out, get the surgery, and move on.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:47 am to Jack Daniel
quote:
Jaxton pitches 300 innings playing from January to August for the Dingers
Jaxton played SS and C when he wasn't on the bump. Gold over everything
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:56 am to DRock88
quote:You are accusing lots of really strong and athletic people who did everything right that they didn’t take care of themselves.
Prevention is building the body around it and arm care.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 10:58 am to tigerbrauf
If it was simply overuse, we’d be seeing an increase in shoulder issues too to go along with the elbow. But that’s not happening. What stresses the elbow most is throwing hard.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 11:00 am to ell_13
quote:
You are accusing lots of really strong and athletic people who did everything right that they didn’t take care of themselves.
Don't take the bait, he's just trying to get people to say he was really strong and athletic at one point.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 11:01 am to tke_swamprat
quote:
Kids are throwing more pitches
LOL.....no. Pitchers aren't throwing more pitches at any level of baseball.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 11:02 am to ProjectP2294
Me or DRock?
Posted on 5/3/23 at 11:03 am to DRock88
quote:
Overuse is still a problem, even with pitch limits. You have kids pitching for travel on the weekend then for rec ball during the week. Each has a limit, but they're really throwing double the limit. You also have most kids playing 2-way, some pitcher and catcher. So, they're pitching double the limit, throwing the limit again across the diamond or even back to the pitcher from behind the plate. The only solution here is for coaches and parents to be way more aware.
None of this is new. At least not within the last 10-15 years. The rise in UCL tears is at least 90% related to the emphasis on velocity. A high school kid throwing 160 pitches in a week at 83mph is not nearly at the same risk as a high school kid throwing 70 pitches a week at 95mph.
Posted on 5/3/23 at 11:04 am to ell_13
quote:
Me or DRock?
You
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