- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: SI.com Photos of the Week (LSU pic)
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:50 am to LSUBlake8
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:50 am to LSUBlake8
Damn, how will I sleep at night knowing your opinion of me.
Well, I'll do my best to deal with it.
I must have made you look stupid at some point and it hurt your delicate feelings. Sorry.
Well, I'll do my best to deal with it.
I must have made you look stupid at some point and it hurt your delicate feelings. Sorry.
2
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:51 am to choupiquesushi
PF. Any time there is contact it is PF. If there is no contact, it is USC. That is how you determine the difference. Also, false start means the play is blown dead. If the play was allowed to develop, it is a procedure penalty, such as not enough men on the line of scrimmage, or illegal motion, etc.
If it was a false start, and the play was blown dead, then a PF could be penalized after the procedure penalty.
If it was a false start, and the play was blown dead, then a PF could be penalized after the procedure penalty.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:52 am to 62zip
quote:
Damn, how will I sleep at night knowing your opinion of me.
Well, I'll do my best to deal with it.
quote:
I must have made you look stupid at some point and it hurt your delicate feelings. Sorry.
You'd have to look LONG and HARD to find this clown....cause it hasn't happened.
I just think you are soooo cool......
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:54 am to LSUBlake8
Thanks.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:55 am to the1stud
quote:
PF. Any time there is contact it is PF. If there is no contact, it is USC. That is how you determine the difference. Also, false start means the play is blown dead. If the play was allowed to develop, it is a procedure penalty, such as not enough men on the line of scrimmage, or illegal motion, etc.
If it was a false start, and the play was blown dead, then a PF could be penalized after the procedure penalty.
quote:
the1stud
Stud...you are dealing w/ two of the finest ref's ever to don a uniform. You will be ridiculed and told to go read your rulebook.
Just a warning........
Posted on 11/10/09 at 11:55 am to 62zip
Ok, honest question. Completely forget the LSU-Bama game, this is just a regular question (obviously spawned by the game).
Now, a false start obviously wipes out “advantage” penalties like holding because the play didn’t happen. But personal fouls, and in this case facemask personal fouls, aren’t penalties because of the advantage but because of safety. Tackling a player by the facemask is dangerous, that’s why it’s a penalty. So wouldn’t whether the play happened or not be irrelevant for a personal foul for dangerous play? The risk of injury didn’t go away because the play didn’t count.
Why wouldn’t a personal foul for safety or sportsmanship be enforced regardless of whether the play officially occurred? Just curious.
Now, a false start obviously wipes out “advantage” penalties like holding because the play didn’t happen. But personal fouls, and in this case facemask personal fouls, aren’t penalties because of the advantage but because of safety. Tackling a player by the facemask is dangerous, that’s why it’s a penalty. So wouldn’t whether the play happened or not be irrelevant for a personal foul for dangerous play? The risk of injury didn’t go away because the play didn’t count.
Why wouldn’t a personal foul for safety or sportsmanship be enforced regardless of whether the play officially occurred? Just curious.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:00 pm to LSUBlake8
I also wear that uniform on Friday nights, so I think I can handle it. Thanks for the heads up though.
This post was edited on 11/10/09 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:05 pm to the1stud
quote:
I also put that wear that uniform on Friday nights, so I think I can handle it. Thanks for the heads up though.
The fact you were correct flew right over his head, didn't it?
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:22 pm to Craig Ferguson
quote:
understant the play was dead due to the procedure penalty, but can there not be a personel foul flag on the field even if a play is dead. If a player just comes out of no where and jacks up someone even when the play is dead, is there not a flag thrown. Face mask penalties are now personel fouls on the field when called are they not? just a question looking for some answers.
My wife asked me the same thing after this play. Doesn't make sense does it? So, from now on, whenever a false start or a procedure penalty is called, it's open season!
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:26 pm to The Egg
quote:
but the procedure penalty made it a non-issue.
By rule a dead-ball personal foul could still be called but you will rarely get an official to go there in this type of situation.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:33 pm to Chicken
quote:
Great pic...
Thanks, Chicken, I thought so too. It kind of sums up the game. Two great teams going at it, but one team apparently cheated to win.
Oh, and someone said they wanted a link. Not sure if it was for the pic, but here is a link to the SI photos of the week where I found it:
LINK
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:38 pm to RANDY44
I'm still trying to figure out what is so difficult for everyone to understand on the play in question. This is pretty simple. The play was dead due to the false start, so the facemask never happened.
Then, everyone wants to change the scenario and talk about ripping helmets off and throw them in the stands or other really egregious acts. At that point, the officials can make a judgment call and call a personal foul. In this case, they assessed that the face mask did not warrant such (correctly so).
I've had my disagreements with Arrakis also, but in this case, he has been pretty clear about stating the rules, yet everyone still wants to argue.
Then, everyone wants to change the scenario and talk about ripping helmets off and throw them in the stands or other really egregious acts. At that point, the officials can make a judgment call and call a personal foul. In this case, they assessed that the face mask did not warrant such (correctly so).
I've had my disagreements with Arrakis also, but in this case, he has been pretty clear about stating the rules, yet everyone still wants to argue.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:38 pm to Weaver
That's the only way Robbie Greeen knows how to tackle - using the facemask.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 12:42 pm to BhamTigah
Bham...
Could you answer my question above? I'm actually trying to get a real answer. Does it matter if the play doesn't happen? I honestly don't know.
The closest rule on point I can find is:
Rule 10.1.5
A personal or disqualifying personal foul occurs during action after a snap that was made before the ball was ready for play. RULING: Every effort should be made to prevent any such premature snap and resulting action, but if such a foul does occur, it is between downs. If both fouls are by Team A, both penalties are enforced. If the second foul was by Team B, both penalties are enforced, with a probable net of 10 yards for Team A. The penalty for Team B’s foul carries an automatic first down.
But that's not precisely on point.
Could you answer my question above? I'm actually trying to get a real answer. Does it matter if the play doesn't happen? I honestly don't know.
The closest rule on point I can find is:
Rule 10.1.5
A personal or disqualifying personal foul occurs during action after a snap that was made before the ball was ready for play. RULING: Every effort should be made to prevent any such premature snap and resulting action, but if such a foul does occur, it is between downs. If both fouls are by Team A, both penalties are enforced. If the second foul was by Team B, both penalties are enforced, with a probable net of 10 yards for Team A. The penalty for Team B’s foul carries an automatic first down.
But that's not precisely on point.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 1:01 pm to Baloo
I don't know the technical language or exact rule (one of the officials on the thread may), but I believe it is a judgement call. If the officials felt the facemask was an attempt to harm, they obviously would call a personal foul. In this case, the Bama player was obviously attempting to make a tackle and grabbed tha facemask. To make the dead ball personal foul call, most officials will need to see a little more than that (i.e. late hit, punch, etc.)
Again, I'm talking out of my arse a little here, as I'm not a rules expert.
Again, I'm talking out of my arse a little here, as I'm not a rules expert.
This post was edited on 11/10/09 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 11/10/09 at 1:08 pm to BhamTigah
quote:
but I believe it is a judgement call. If the officials felt the facemask was an attempt to harm, they obviously would call a personal foul. In this case, the Bama player was obviously attempting to make a tackle and grabbed tha facemask.
Exactly
It doesn't rise to the level of flagrant. If the tackler grabbed the runner's facemask and threw him down it would be a different matter. The FM occurred as you said.
Just because a foul can be called doesn't mean it should.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 1:13 pm to arrakis
quote:
Just because a foul can be called doesn't mean it should.
Agreed. But SHOULDN'T they, in this case? If the purpose of the foul is to prevent dangerous play, does the play become any less dangerous because it has been negated by a false start? Wouldn't enforcement of a personal foul on face mask actually fulfill the spirit of the rules and the letter? To refuse to throw the flag because the play "didn't happen", doesn't this frustrate the very purpose of the rule?
It's not an advantage foul, it's a protection of the players foul. BTW- I realize we're moving into what the rules should be, not what they are.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 1:17 pm to Baloo
quote:
But SHOULDN'T they, in this case?
No
quote:
Wouldn't enforcement of a personal foul on face mask actually fulfill the spirit of the rules and the letter?
No
quote:
To refuse to throw the flag because the play "didn't happen", doesn't this frustrate the very purpose of the rule?
Flag was thrown and picked up
quote:
It's not an advantage foul, it's a protection of the players foul.
Like I said, if it rose to that level we're talking about a different matter
Posted on 11/10/09 at 1:36 pm to arrakis
Gee, thanks for the thoughtful discussion. Thanks for giving me your perspective so I can see the reasoning behind your answers and gain a greater understanding of officiating.
I'm actuallly trying to have a genuine rules discussion, but apparently you're too caught up in "LSU is always wrong" to engage in a thoughtful exchange. My apologies for treating you like a rational person.
I even said I'm not trying to talk about the LSU/Bama game per se, but the actual rules themselves. I gave you an olive branch to show you're not just the troll everyone thinks you are, which you kindly snapped in half. But you really are the troll people say you are.
I'm actuallly trying to have a genuine rules discussion, but apparently you're too caught up in "LSU is always wrong" to engage in a thoughtful exchange. My apologies for treating you like a rational person.
I even said I'm not trying to talk about the LSU/Bama game per se, but the actual rules themselves. I gave you an olive branch to show you're not just the troll everyone thinks you are, which you kindly snapped in half. But you really are the troll people say you are.
Posted on 11/10/09 at 1:48 pm to Baloo
quote:
Gee, thanks for the thoughtful discussion. Thanks for giving me your perspective so I can see the reasoning behind your answers and gain a greater understanding of officiating.
I covered it in my previous post. Then you asked questions and I answered them. I sincerely don't get your sudden butthurt
quote:
I'm actuallly trying to have a genuine rules discussion, but apparently you're too caught up in "LSU is always wrong" to engage in a thoughtful exchange. My apologies for treating you like a rational person.
Apparently you haven't read my posts i.e. the bogus claim that the pass to Smelley was a catch.
Page 5 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News