re: SI.com Photos of the Week (LSU pic)

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It's not an advantage foul, it's a protection of the players foul.

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Baloo, I'd actually say facemask could be either, or even both, as grabbing a facemask certainly gives the tackler the advantage over the runner. In this case, I would call it an advantage foul that never happened because the play never happened. If the facemask would have been more aggressive, it may have fallen into the category of player protection and may have warranted a personal foul call in spite of the stopped play, thus being a dead ball personal foul.

They no longer have 5 yard incidental facemask penalties, but there are still degrees of viciousness with facemasks. Personal fouls are always judgment calls and thus very subjective.

When I said earlier that I did not understand why people are still questioning this, I wasn't meaning you. Your question seems to be more of a "why is this the rule" rather than arguing the official in the game was wrong. This one does require some interpretation, but I've explained it to the best of my ability.

Asking an official like Arrakis this question is similar to asking a policeman why something is illegal. Officials don't make the rules and sometimes don't even agree with them, but they still have to enforce them. (By the way, this is not meant to be insulting to Arrakis, officials, or police officers).

I know, Bham, my rant was directed at you. I even cited a rule and asked a frigin’ official if he could think of one more on point. But he essentially refused to have the discussion.

Face mask infractions are personal fouls and any personal foul, according to the NCAA rulebook, can be assessed as a live ball or a dead ball foul. Unfortunately, the rules assume that a play that is supposed to be whistled dead is always whistled dead, so it doesn’t really consider the possibility that a play that doesn’t count will even occur. So there is no rule I can find directly on point. I did find the rule about a play getting off before the ball is set that I feel is roughly analogous (it is an instance of a “non-existing” play occurring yet a face mask penalty still being assessed as a dead ball foul.

I think the unsportsmanlike foul is a red herring. I’m strictly talking about face mask personal fouls (I guess you could expand it to crack back blocks or spearing, other in the process of the play personal fouls). The rules explicitly state that all personal fouls can be assessed as live ball or dead ball fouls, which means that there MUST be a situation in which a dead ball face mask would be flagged as a face mask and not unsportsmanlike (or a flagrant violation if you like).

I think Bham might be on to the best tact that in this case, this face mask violation was an “advantage” penalty and not a “dangerous play” penalty. I can see that argument, but I see no reason why a dangerous play ceases to be dangerous just because the play has been whistled dead. But I do not believe a face mask penalty on a dead-ball play would need to be flagrant in order to rise to the level of dangerous play worthy of a flag.

This is a VERY long-winded way of saying that is 100% INCORRECT to state, “there was no play, therefore they can be no face mask penalty”. That 100% misstates the rules. Now, there is an argument of whether THIS play is worthy of a dead-ball face mask flag, but the standard argument of “no play, no face mask” has no basis in the rulebook.