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Message
re: More impressive first year coaching job? Wade 2017 or Miles 2005
Posted on 2/22/18 at 4:54 am to Madking
Posted on 2/22/18 at 4:54 am to Madking
quote:
Same QB Rick his development is more about coaching than the players talent. I said most talented roster not most productive or most polished. Those things have more to do with development and coaching than the players athletic ability. For example regardless on who had more stats I’d much rather have Kyle Williams, Claude Wrotten, Glenn Dorsey, Charles Alexander and Marlon Favorite as my 5 DTs than Dorsey, Alexander, Favorite, Ryan Willis and Al Woods, which are the DTs that saw time in 06. You have better quality and more of them in 05.
All fair enough.
In that case, if we are just talking about pure roster “talent”, which comes from what a player goes on to show at any point in their career, not necessarily what they contribute in that particular season, I would argue 2004 is actually the most talented roster in LSU history. (With 2011 not far behind. But I won’t sidetrack us with another comparison of completely different rosters).
Again, all of those players you list and talk about from 2005 are still on the roster other than Tyson Jackson, but you replace him with Marcus Spears, and then add Corey Webster and Travis Daniels to the secondary, which would tremendously boost the talent from that 05 roster
quote:
First off polls are opinion SEC West titles and championship game apprearances are tangible things. It seems you’re the one who can’t grasp reality from subjectivity.
Sugar Bowl and New Years Day Bowl bids are tangible things as well. LSU was Sugar Bowl Champs in 06. That is reality as well.
It is subjective as to which is more important or valuable, but both seasons came away with something tangible to show their success.
Some may say a West Championship season that ends up in the Peach Bowl is more successful or praiseworthy than a season in which the West happened to be more stacked so you miss Atlanta but was great enough to earn an invitation to a tangibly better Bowl game in the Sugar. Some may think the opposite.
But the Sugar Bowl was a factually much better Bowl than the Peach in 05-06.
It is subjective which is more important, and the FACT that LSU finished higher in the opinion polls may is used in weighing one’s opinion on which season was more successful or impressive or if a team improved or not.
I have always believed 05 was one of Miles’ best coaching jobs other than 2011 and 2007 given all of the chaos he had to work through to keep that team together.
But I do believe the 06 team improved and was a better team than the 05 team.
Those are only subjective opinions, of course.
Just like your OPINION that 05 is the “most talented roster”, which is of course subjective as well.
quote:
you still haven’t given a roster that was more talented than the 05 roster. Still waiting...
Now that I fully understand your subjective criteria, 2004. In my opinion
This post was edited on 2/22/18 at 4:58 am
1
Posted on 2/22/18 at 6:19 am to memphis tiger
quote:
I cant forgive Miles for letting Tenn come back and beat us on the hottest most miserable game attended on a monday night no less
I’ve never understood the hatred Miles got for this game. Given the circumstances, it is probably the most easily forgivable loss in his tenure.
Even almost 13 year later it still amazes me how people have no clue and will not concede anything to Miles.
To win the West in 2005 after what happened to this state and the team, was a major accomplishment.
If LSU wasn't a Tier 2 school, there would be a 30 for 30 written about it. Idiots here have no clue what the team and program went through during those storms. None.
I could get on my soapbox but this is the rant. LOL. Nobody cares.
Posted on 2/22/18 at 7:12 am to Tiger Voodoo
Apparently you don’t understand but that’s ok you’ve proven my point. You originally made an ignorant remark and are trying to justify it. That’s why your arguments are all over the place and even contradict each other. Regardless of how many times you continue to move the goal post winning the SEC West is a better season than not winning it. If you don’t understand how standings work I’m sure there’s a definition on the google machine you can look at. 04 is an interesting take so is 2011, 04 is in that group with 05 and 06 so yea could be, 2011 isn’t on that level because there’s no QB. Although bringing up 2011 is funny for you since most of our impact players were sophomores and by your assessment don’t count.
This post was edited on 2/22/18 at 7:33 am
Posted on 2/22/18 at 8:25 am to tigerfan in bamaland
quote:
I cant forgive Miles for letting Tenn come back and beat us on the hottest most miserable game attended on a monday night no less.
Are you kidding?
This comment actually pissed me off.
Posted on 2/22/18 at 8:44 am to Madking
quote:
Apparently you don’t understand but that’s ok you’ve proven my point. You originally made an ignorant remark and are trying to justify it. That’s why your arguments are all over the place and even contradict each other.
Oh Aerys, you are such an angry and twisted ol fella.
I didn’t “originally make an ignorant remark”.
You originally posted this remark, which I will refrain from attaching an adjective to,:
quote:
He had the most talented Roster in LSU history and blew a 17 point 4th quarter lead to a 5-6 Tennessee team
Which I simply posted an lol to, as it seemed to me a clear attempt to blow a single game out of proportion with your OPINION that the LSU team on the field that night was some historically talented juggernaut, when the vast majority of the highly drafted players on that roster were not near the peak of their careers.
You then responded to my lol with this:
quote:
Facts usually do illicit an emotional response from the Miles > LSU crowd.
So you began all of this by trying to justify your OPINION as a FACT, which it simply is not.
I responded, again, without even any text, as the perfectly appropriate “you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means” gif said all that needs to be said.
You then listed off the drafted players to justify your OPINION, and I went on to list both 06 and, after you clarified the basis of your opinion, 04 and 11 as rosters that were arguably more talented than 05, which you yourself said were interesting discussions, clearly proving that your asserted FACT was no such thing. It is merely an OPINION.
You then posted that if 06 was more talented, why didn’t the team improve, which you quickly edited, and I pointed out that according to both major polls, the 06 team DID improve in the final rankings.
You then pivoted to basically say that winning the West in 05 and failing to in 06 is the only measure to judge that 06 did not improve.
I didn’t even disagree, just again pointed out that that is your OPINION, and noted that getting a Sugar Bowl invitation in 06 rather than the Peach Bowl in 05 is yet another indicator one can use to judge whether a team improved from one year to the next.
At no time did I attempt to assert a FACT, as all of these are subjective assessments, again, a distinction you have difficulty grasping.
quote:
2011 isn’t on that level because there’s no QB.
Mettenberger was on that roster. An NFL QB that played in the league as long as Russell did.
Sure he didn’t contribute much, but by your standards that isn’t relevant to the talent on the roster.
quote:
Although bringing up 2011 is funny for you since most of our impact players were sophomores and by your assessment don’t count.
My point about the players in 05 didn’t have to do with their grade classification. It had to do with the level of their play in different years.
Russell, Bowe, Davis, Doucet, Dorsey, Jackson, and arguably even Landry weren’t the caliber of player they were in 05 as they were in 06.
Mathieu was only a sophomore in 11 but he was perhaps the best player in modern LSU history.
It isn’t about age, my comment about 06 was about how close they were to their peak level of performance compared to 05.
You really should try not to get so bent out of shape, Aerys. We’re all just talking sports and opinions here
This post was edited on 2/22/18 at 8:53 am
Posted on 2/22/18 at 8:52 am to Tiger Voodoo
Looks like you take this place a little to serious....
Posted on 2/22/18 at 8:55 am to dukke v
quote:
Looks like you take this place a little to serious....
quote:
dukke v
quote:
Number of Posts: 160984
This post was edited on 2/22/18 at 8:57 am
Posted on 2/23/18 at 5:19 am to Tiger Voodoo
Debate team?
Posted on 2/23/18 at 5:49 am to justice
quote:
To even mention miles with hallman shows how incredibly fricking stupid you are. Miles also got that NFL talent here.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 6:02 am to justice
quote:
To even mention miles with Hallman shows how incredibly fricking stupid you are. Miles also got that NFL talent here.
College talent vs NFL talent is a night and day difference.
50 players in the NFL and he backs into the 07 National Championship.
He fricking lost to Kentucky, Kentucky football isn't a far cry from Troy.
We won't even get into the Arkansas game, AT HOME!!!
Not a single coach in the BCS era other than Miles got into the ship with 2 losses.
The 11 team maybe the best ever in LSU history, and he gets blown out by 21.
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE FACTS frick YOU.
MILES = CURLEY
Posted on 2/23/18 at 6:09 am to Tiger1988
quote:
The only other teams I recall were ‘58, 69 and ‘03 being close to what we were in 2011
I'm only 50 so I know about the 03 team, and until the 11 season, I thought the 03 team was the best ever.
I went to school with Ruffin and going to his house I have heard about that 58 team.
But tell me about 69 and how that season went down.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 6:41 am to cj2002
Miles inherited a Ferrari. No comparison with Wade in any way
Posted on 2/23/18 at 6:50 am to cj2002
Only lost to Ole Miss. Didn't have a real strong SOS and got snubbed for bowl game with UT after media darling Notre Dame decided to end a 40-50yr hiatus from bowl games.
Subsequently, they decided not to go to a lesser bowl.
9-1 LSU ended ranked lower than OM and UM with 3 losses each, and Notre Dame Arky plus one other team I can't recall with 2 losses.
Subsequently, they decided not to go to a lesser bowl.
9-1 LSU ended ranked lower than OM and UM with 3 losses each, and Notre Dame Arky plus one other team I can't recall with 2 losses.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 7:24 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Wade is doing a hell of a job, but nothing compared to what Miles did in 2005.
More impressive first year coaching job? Wade 2017 or Miles 2005
2005 has nothing to do with talent or X's and O's. Doesn't matter if we had an all-time great team assembled or not.
Saban left the team late, didn't reveal until the bowl game. Miles came in cold, right off the bat you have the risk of team bailout (notice how many transfers we had when Orgeron took over?).
Major hurricane hits (Katrina, we're still seeing some leftover effects over a decade later), LSU is used as a staging center for evacuations, just about everyone is affected. Schedule gets completely messed up. Players housing family in apartments, dorms, etc. Then another hurricane (Rita) comes in and tries to deal the kill shot to the state, when everyone is already down on a knee.
Absolutely every reason to have a dismal season is legitimately there, and nobody would fault a single person if it had happened.
As has been pointed out, we don't get the season opening game, we then get a home game against a ranked Arizona St team moved to away on a moment's notice. We end up playing the entire season without a bye week. Don't care if everyone ends up being NFL HOF players, at the time they are 18-22 yr old kids whose lives are shattered.
Undefeated regular season except for a home loss in a game against Tennessee, which was moved to Monday night after Rita, a game where we had a big lead and faltered from exhaustion. Came back the rest of the games and finished out the season. Won SEC West. Out of gas vs UGA in Atlanta. Finally got to rest after that, came back and skullfricked Miami in the bowl.
You may hate Miles with a burning passion (as so many seem to do), but objectively you have to give the man credit for holding that team together.
In comparison, Wade is "just" having a solid, respectable year trying to revive a Power 5 program. He's definitely building a winning climate, doing all the right things, etc. But it's unfair to compare him or anyone to 05.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 8:11 am to justice
quote:
To even mention miles with hallman shows how incredibly fricking stupid you are.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 8:59 am to cj2002
quote:
F YOU DONT LIKE THE FACTS frick YOU
oh the irony.....
how about these facts...
Miles has the #1 win% in lsu history.
Miles has the #1 ooc win% in lsu history.
Miles has the #7 win % in sec history.
Miles has the #1 ooc win % in sec history.
During his tenure no program beat more ranked teams than Lsu.
During his tenure no program was ranked in the top 25 more weeks.
Miles has the most top 25 finishes in lsu history.
Miles has the most top 20 finishes in lsu history.
Miles has the most top 15 finishes in lsu history.
Miles has the most top 10 finishes in lsu history.
Miles has the most top 5 finishes in lsu history.
Miles has as many top 3 finishes as ever other lsu coach combined.
He is the only lsu coach to beat Auburn Bama and florida in the same season amd he did it multiple times.
HE ACHIEVED THOSE GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS DURING THE MOST DOMINANT ERA OF SEC FOOTBALL EVER.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 9:44 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Are you serious. When Miles blew the Tennessee game in Tiger Stadium up by 21 then going to the freeze offense I said "OH OH Shaggy".
Wade by a mile!! A coach like Wade in the equivalent to football we win in 2006 (What a team) and 2007, 2011 and maybe 2016 with Fournette and company.
See how Wade made a nice team out of nothing for this season after a dumpster fire last year, then his current recruiting class!! WOW WOW WOW
He would have had us a good QB and not let the OL and DL go down. He is light years a smarter and better coach then ole Les
Wade by a mile!! A coach like Wade in the equivalent to football we win in 2006 (What a team) and 2007, 2011 and maybe 2016 with Fournette and company.
See how Wade made a nice team out of nothing for this season after a dumpster fire last year, then his current recruiting class!! WOW WOW WOW
He would have had us a good QB and not let the OL and DL go down. He is light years a smarter and better coach then ole Les
Posted on 2/23/18 at 9:46 am to Dubaitiger
It would have been Bama 3-4 Natty's and LSU 3-4 Natty's since 2005 if a coach as good as Will Wade is in the equivalent of the gridiron
Posted on 2/23/18 at 9:54 am to cj2002
quote:
cj2002
you are really an idiot. Post less, or never again. Go chug some Clorox.
Posted on 2/23/18 at 10:31 am to Dubaitiger
quote:
would have been Bama 3-4 Natty's and LSU 3-4 Natty's since 2005 if a coach as good as Will Wade is in the equivalent of the gridiron
so youre saying wade in cbb is the equivalent of saban in cfb?
and right here and now youre saying Wade will have the best tenure in lsu bb historym
This post was edited on 2/23/18 at 10:32 am
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