- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: LSU is not a rebuild. LSU hired O to avoid a rebuild.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:16 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:16 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Looking for more specific things as you were never hesitant to criticize Miles in depth
i mean basically take everything wrong with Miles' tenure and add in inability for our HC to even construct a gameplan, let alone construct an overall philosophy as to how we're going to achieve our goals. i mean Miles had an antiquated and honestly scared offensive philosophy, but we had an ethos. Orgeron doesn't even have the intelligence to construct that identity
2
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:21 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Surely if you know coach O isn't the answer after 1 loss, you have an idea on exactly what needs to be done
I knew he wasnt the answer 8 months ago
What needs to be done is we need a competent coach after an actual interview process that gives us the best potential candidates. We needed that last year and we never got it.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:23 pm to wildtigercat93
If you really think about it, is Orgeron really anything other than a cajun Les Miles without the success but with the self awareness to admit he doesn't know shite and needs to delegate?
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:37 pm to MOT
quote:
If you really think about it, is Orgeron really anything other than a cajun Les Miles without the success but with the self awareness to admit he doesn't know shite and needs to delegate?
And that's the crux of the argument. The circumstances in which we were sold the hire, was that Miles had maintained a great program that had went stale, and had he not been stubborn and had made a few adjustments, we would instantly be contenders. All these top 10 classes were proof that any idiot could win 10 games if they recruited. Joe Alleva and O told us this, they made this narrative. Whether or not that was true is irrelevant, because that was the standard and story that they sold, not the fan base
But now when the first chink in the plan shows up, the narrative quickly shifts. Now it's a rebuild. Now Les Miles had an awful program and we didn't recruit and Oregeron was not responsible for any of that despite him being a recruiting coordinator and the Dline coach for two seasons and he kept the continuity on staff that we now have a problem with. Now we need to give him time. None of his failures matter, they aren't his fault, just like his Ole Miss failures and his failures during his interim stints weren't his fault.
What happens when we fail in year 2? Oh wait Coach O has thought of that. That's when he blames the coordinators. All we need is to fire Canada and we'll win a championship. But I'll need two more years for him to fully implement his system as wel so you have to give us more time. Coach O hasn't figured out that he can't coach, he's just figured out that he can keep his job a lot longer if he takes all the pressure off of himself.
Sad part of all this was I knew all of this was coming, I said it to anyone who wanted to listen, but even I didn't expect it to come this early. Even I thought O could bumble his was to 9 wins. Somehow he lowered my already shockingly low standards for his tenure here. It's truly amazing.
And to burst another narrative about this being about "one game". That game on Saturday was simply a microcosm of issues we had in all 3 games this season, and we played a team with a pulse that made us pay for them. It was a truly scary loss because we were sloppy, unmotivated, and dumb. All of these aspects were supposed to be the things Coach O brought to the table. So even the tiny things he said he would actually do as a HC, he failed to do.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:41 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Joe Alleva and O told us this, they made this narrative.
exactly. i was told i was creating a straw man because they lied, ignoring this was their actual sales pitch to the fans
quote:
And to burst another narrative about this being about "one game". That game on Saturday was simply a microcosm of issues we had in all 3 games this season, and we played a team with a pulse that made us pay for them. It was a truly scary loss because we were sloppy, unmotivated, and dumb. All of these aspects were supposed to be the things Coach O brought to the table. So even the tiny things he said he would actually do as a HC, he failed to do.
yeah other than the actual results of the historic loss, it was HOW it unfolded
all of the worries about O and his tenure at Ole Miss were SCREAMING at the fans Saturday night
unfocused, sloppy, dumb, non-imaginative, and without any plan B. and this is likely the best team/coaching situation O will have at LSU
THAT is why people are freaking out. how you lose matters. your history matters. process and the ideas forming the basis of your team matter more than results over a long sample size. we looked like the Ole Miss era under O this past Saturday
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i mean basically take everything wrong with Miles' tenure and add in inability for our HC to even construct a gameplan, let alone construct an overall philosophy as to how we're going to achieve our goals. i mean Miles had an antiquated and honestly scared offensive philosophy, but we had an ethos. Orgeron doesn't even have the intelligence to construct that identity
Exactly.
Regardless of Miles's flaws, I knew we would have at least one thing that worked well. If 2008 never happened, or if Perrilloux never got kicked off, Miles would probably still be the coach here.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:48 pm to moneyg
quote:
There is no argument for the Orgeron hire looking good on paper. You don't have to set up the "continuity" straw man to knock it down. That's been a pretty strong consensus from the minute news broke of the hire.
Many many arguments around here would tell a different story.
quote:
Having said that, on paper and in reality can end up being different things. The hire is made. Orgeron has to be judged based on reasonable criticisms. What we saw on Saturday was reflective of existing program issues...not Ogeron's philosophy, or his gameday coaching.
How so? And "existing program issues" by a staff that's largely the same....so what did O do to change?
But what has O done to make anyone comfortable that he can coach beyond his players?
Ogeron's philosophy (I'd like to know actually), is, apparently, hire the best coordinators. So let's say Canada's inability to produce leads us to hire a new OC next year, what then, would you say next year "What we saw on Saturday 2018 was reflective of OC issues...not Ogeron's philosophy, or his gameday coaching. We need a new OC."
Additionally, it also sounds like, as we talk about the talent and depth issues, we circle back to SFP's other point:
Does it then not take the following things to align for Coach O to be successful:
1) The perfect OC and DC hires
2) The perfect talent
3) The perfect schedule
And that, without a single item, O becomes absolved of responsibility?
Basically, is O only a good coach when literally everything lines up? He should be filling gaps every single day to coach around deficiencies, that's what a coach does. He should be able to coach the team out of a subpar offensive line by creating a scheme that focuses on the strengths. He should be able to coach when he is outclassed on one side of the ball.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:48 pm to MOT
quote:
If you really think about it, is Orgeron really anything other than a cajun Les Miles without the success but with the self awareness to admit he doesn't know shite and needs to delegate?
"Without the success" is a big strike against him.
For all of Les's shortcomings, he was doing something right for many years. He just stopped doing it or failed to adjust. There is no indication that O ever had a clue.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:53 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
For all of Les's shortcomings, he was doing something right for many years. He just stopped doing it or failed to adjust. There is no indication that O ever had a clue.
Even then, a blowout loss was the exception. The only big ones that come to mind are the Florida game in 2008 and the 41-7 Auburn game.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 1:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:04 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
The plan doesn't make sense unless O can routinely 1) Hire the very best coordinators nearly most likely every 1-2 years 2) Incorporate new philosophies very quickly
Very well said. Some O supporters are going to argue that Canada needs time. But we'll have that issue every year or two. Between the two coordinators someone will leave just about every year.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:06 pm to Penrod
quote:
Between the two coordinators someone will leave just about every year.
If things are going well. If they aren't being pursued, we've got other problems.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
wish i could upvote 100 times..
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:39 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:
You know damn well orgeron will have his marketing hype team. Start spinning this disaster so nothing sticks to him.
That would be the public relations firm of TigerRee & SpaceCowboy. They've been hard at work for several months now praising Ed Orgerons Ole Miss tenure (it wasn't as bad as the O-haters make it out to be) and pointing out that every move that Coach O has made since last September has been a winning move. From shortening practices to running a completely transparent program. You don't like some of the coaches from the previous staff? No problem. Coach O will fire the dead weight and hire the best assistant coaches money can buy.
SpaceCowboy has been hard at work this week, deflecting blame from last Saturdays blow out loss to Mississippi State. Coach O had nothing to do with that loss. It's the previous coaching staffs fault. Never mind that Coach O was also a key part of the previous staffs recruiting team. And it's the officials fault for calling too many penalties. Some were good calls, some were bad calls. But goshdarnit, why call any at all? And Aranda and Canada just flat out choked with their game plans. And it's not Coach O's place to muddle in their business. After all, he's going to be a hands off head coach.
TigerRee has been missing in action the past few days, but I'm sure he's busting arse behind the scenes with his finger in the dike, sweeping all of last weeks game ugliness under the rug.
Yes indeed, the PR firm of TigerRee & Space Cowboy are working round the clock to show that one man, and only one man, could take over LSU successfully and lead the team to new heights. And that man, ladies and gentlemen, is Coach Ed orgeron.
Their motto is "we make the right moves, the winning moves and there is never any wasted moves"
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:41 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
If you really think about it, is Orgeron really anything other than a cajun Les Miles without the success but with the self awareness to admit he doesn't know shite and needs to delegate?
outstanding statement..
quote:
And that's the crux of the argument. The circumstances in which we were sold the hire, was that Miles had maintained a great program that had went stale, and had he not been stubborn and had made a few adjustments, we would instantly be contenders. All these top 10 classes were proof that any idiot could win 10 games if they recruited. Joe Alleva and O told us this, they made this narrative. Whether or not that was true is irrelevant, because that was the standard and story that they sold, not the fan base
But now when the first chink in the plan shows up, the narrative quickly shifts. Now it's a rebuild. Now Les Miles had an awful program and we didn't recruit and Oregeron was not responsible for any of that despite him being a recruiting coordinator and the Dline coach for two seasons and he kept the continuity on staff that we now have a problem with. Now we need to give him time. None of his failures matter, they aren't his fault, just like his Ole Miss failures and his failures during his interim stints weren't his fault.
What happens when we fail in year 2? Oh wait Coach O has thought of that. That's when he blames the coordinators. All we need is to fire Canada and we'll win a championship. But I'll need two more years for him to fully implement his system as wel so you have to give us more time. Coach O hasn't figured out that he can't coach, he's just figured out that he can keep his job a lot longer if he takes all the pressure off of himself.
Sad part of all this was I knew all of this was coming, I said it to anyone who wanted to listen, but even I didn't expect it to come this early. Even I thought O could bumble his was to 9 wins. Somehow he lowered my already shockingly low standards for his tenure here. It's truly amazing.
And to burst another narrative about this being about "one game". That game on Saturday was simply a microcosm of issues we had in all 3 games this season, and we played a team with a pulse that made us pay for them. It was a truly scary loss because we were sloppy, unmotivated, and dumb. All of these aspects were supposed to be the things Coach O brought to the table. So even the tiny things he said he would actually do as a HC, he failed to do.
i agree... the momeny he was announced i knew it was going to be bad.. i thought he was making some right moves with the hires and the recruiting class, but that loss the St just cemented it.. we will have two good games here soon (at least i hope) and most will forget about St, and then the gauntlet will happen, you will find out everything you need to know during that 5 week stretch. And btw. the SEC is in it worse season in prob 15 years. keep that in mind..
Posted on 9/19/17 at 3:15 pm to TigerFan4040
quote:
in what universe will having a new HC and OC NOT HAVE GROWING PAINS?
A 30 point loss to Mississippi State is not "growing pains", it's pancreatic cancer.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 3:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
Can we sticky this? I want the shrimp boat captain to know we're on to his shite
Posted on 9/19/17 at 3:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
SlowProFlow nailed it. In order to rebuild you need a philosophy/vision for what the team is and how to achieve it or you're always just reacting. And Coach O has no philosophy. One heartbeat is a cliché
Now that begs the question: how does a middle-aged man who has played football, been around football all of his life, coached football, been around other headcoaches and coordinators, even been a head coach himself not have a guiding approach to the game.
Now that begs the question: how does a middle-aged man who has played football, been around football all of his life, coached football, been around other headcoaches and coordinators, even been a head coach himself not have a guiding approach to the game.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 3:28 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
He should be able to coach the team out of a subpar offensive line by creating a scheme that focuses on the strengths. He should be able to coach when he is outclassed on one side of the ball.
this is exactly correct.
Hell, even I could do well as a coach if I had superior talent. That's not really the test of a good coach, it's the results of a great recruiter.
The true test of a good coach is what you do with average or sub-par talent. Identify your strengths and weaknesses, and those of your opponents, and then scheme to exploit both.
Every game may be different, and that's where a coach really earns his money.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 3:31 pm to TigerD84
quote:
Now that begs the question: how does a middle-aged man who has played football, been around football all of his life, coached football, been around other headcoaches and coordinators, even been a head coach himself not have a guiding approach to the game.
This is the $200,000 question. Or, actually, the $12 million dollar question.
Page 19 of 39
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News