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re: IMO we need to change our pitching approach

Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:20 am to
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
132818 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:20 am to
quote:

The 3-0 and 3-1 counts are because we can't throw the off speed for a strike. We throw off-speeds all fricking game.


If you know this, I'm 100% sure opposing coaches know our bull pen tendencies.
Posted by TigerMac81
Bossier City, LA
Member since Dec 2007
3996 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:27 am to
I agree. They need to have command of their two seam and four seam fast balls first, as well as their change up. They also need to work on developing the cutter or the split finger. I remember Laxton devastating Wichita State primarily with the cut fast ball.
Posted by beardkp
H-Town
Member since Feb 2013
1036 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:33 am to
quote:

Defense is definitely one of our problems. Jones and White are absolute liabilities in the field.



Absolutely. White is an average third baseman and Jones is an average at BEST first baseman who both choke routine plays all the time. Still to this day ripping my hair out that the best first baseman in college baseball is playing in left field. If Tre Morgan is playing first, that 10th inning ground ball is a double play and LSU escapes with the game still tied. But for some god for saken reason, we're putting Morgan in left so we can keep the biggest boom/bust hitter and average fielder, Jared Jones, playing.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 10:34 am
Posted by TigerMac81
Bossier City, LA
Member since Dec 2007
3996 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:33 am to
This is primarily Dugas. If by some miracle Cade Doughty had stayed for another year, Dugas would be in the outfield.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
68636 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:36 am to
quote:

I’ve never seen a team so bad at throwing the ball to first.

last year was much worse in this area
Posted by beardkp
H-Town
Member since Feb 2013
1036 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:37 am to
quote:

The 3-0 and 3-1 counts are because we can't throw the off speed for a strike. We throw off-speeds all fricking game. Because we don't want contact. We want K's.



Absolutely. Its not even JUST not throwing them for strikes. Its that they are not even remotely CLOSE to strikes. Throwing them for balls is still fine if they are close, that actually does illicit swings. Again, its that they are SOOO bad, soo not close, that my 6 year old knows its a ball and wouldnt swing. They are literally incapable of throwing the pitches at all
Posted by subidc
CharlestonSC
Member since Nov 2019
3311 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:41 am to
Yeah but what about the three MLB baseball catches and runs saved in left field all weekend. That’s not why we lost the game. We lost the game because of pitching. Defense is bad too don’t get me wrong but bad pitching is one of the causes of bad defense. Players lose focus get tired and make errors.
Posted by Imber
Member since Sep 2017
15898 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:43 am to
quote:

But for some god for saken reason, we're putting Morgan in left so we can keep the biggest boom/bust hitter and average fielder, Jared Jones, playing.


Sacrifice everything else for home runs. This is Jay Johnson baseball.
Posted by TheJuicey
Arkansas
Member since Aug 2019
3935 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:50 am to
What if they are purposely working on this for the future? Look I agree with everything, but even yesterday for the most part we hav even in every game we have lost, many of them we should’ve won anyways.

Who’s to say if we change our ways in the regional and only throw a certain pitch at a specific moment?
Posted by beardkp
H-Town
Member since Feb 2013
1036 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:59 am to
quote:

Yeah but what about the three MLB baseball catches and runs saved in left field all weekend. That’s not why we lost the game. We lost the game because of pitching. Defense is bad too don’t get me wrong but bad pitching is one of the causes of bad defense. Players lose focus get tired and make errors.


I agree, its not why they lost, just another cog of frustration with this team and Jay Johnson.
My point overall on that front is that, while Morgan made some great plays there this weekend. As a whole this year, he's been pretty average out there. LSU has other players, Kling/Pearson, that are great outfielders, especially kling who I absolutely believe would make plays like we saw Morgan make this weekend. And while their average is lower than Jones, one, they have less plate appearance so its not really comparable, and two, who cares if the offense takes a small hit, the offense isnt a problem. Pitching and our average defense is. And there's zero need for playing these guys like Jay is.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 11:00 am
Posted by NorCali
Member since Feb 2015
1298 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 11:12 am to
A huge unknown is the impact of the TrackMan monitoring (in SEC games and tourney only, does not appear to be in regionals, even for SEC host sites) and the bias it produces of the subjective strike zone. Once regionals start and LSU plays non-conference teams, will the bullpen still struggle with walks or will that drop dramatically as those pitches that have been close but called balls become strikes? I mean LSU and State both had in the 50% for strikes on Sunday per the radio guys.
Posted by lsusteve1
Member since Dec 2004
44083 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 11:40 am to
quote:

That's what this whole thread is about. Throw strikes and make them hit you. And by strikes I mean fastballs. And stop trying to get strikeouts by throwing backwards. Throw fastballs to get ahead and use the off speed to get a K when you have the opportunity. We do this backwards and it doesn't work.


Somewhat, we agree. I'm just saying not all of our pitchers are just trying to K guys.

We're falling behind hitters way to much.
Posted by Metaloctopus
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2018
6404 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:01 pm to
LSU is terrible with analytics. Worst I have seen between the two teams I follow (LSU/Braves), and as bad as anywhere else I can think of. The pitch calling defies logic, and the defensive positioning is constantly out of place. How many times did we see State hit little choppers through the right side that snuck through, while State had a guy standing right there, sometimes in the outfield, ready to field those same choppers off our bats?

When LSU wasn't hitting the ball hard, they were not rewarded. MSU just needed to put a bat on the ball, and it seemed like it magically found grass. I saw one ball hit up the middle yesterday, but LSU would not play them to pull.

All this talk about Wes Johnson's analytical approach, and Jay Johnson's non stop quest for all the latest information and technology to get ahead. Where is the evidence? I see him recruit his butt off, but why do we look like our staff are the last one's to figure out a trend of something that isn't working? Why do they keep yanking pitchers who are at least competing, to try to play some matchup that ends up imploding when the next guy in can't throw a strike?

The whole process feels very mechanical, and the results aren't validating the process.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 12:05 pm
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
73658 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:06 pm to
One of the most analytically inclined franchises in the majors is Tampa, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

They've overhauled the way they set up the catcher in recent years to increase strike throwing. They simply have him set up his target in the strike zone. Crazy, I know. But it's working for them. They make their guys trust their stuff in the strike zone.

I understand there is a talent disparity between our roster and a major league organization, but getting beat in the strike zone is preferable to walking guys.
Posted by Metaloctopus
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2018
6404 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

I understand there is a talent disparity between our roster and a major league organization, but getting beat in the strike zone is preferable to walking guys.


Yes, 100%. It's great when you have a Paul Skenes (of which, there is only one - himself - who is anywhere near that level in college right now) who can execute a specific pitch by pitch sequence, and hit all the spots. We don't have other guys who can near consistently do that.

But aside from them not being able to execute, they seem to all rely heavily on one or two pitches. You would think they'd try something else, but they just keep calling the same pitches, despite the lack of success.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
46734 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

They have demonstrated consistently they can not pitch from behind, and they should not be expected to do so

Okay, but what you guys are advocating is going to result in very high BA against.

Anything is better than what our BP did this weekend, but two weeks ago most of us would have called that a stupid strategy.
Posted by subidc
CharlestonSC
Member since Nov 2019
3311 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:19 pm to
I have thought all along Kling Kong should play regardless of how he is hitting. He has too much talent and speed to keep on the bench. He would have figured out most likely with more reps. No one can change my mind about that. Jones is struggling for sure. I don’t care what his average is, the eye test doesn’t match. You can see it on every off speed pitch.
Posted by SoloTiger
Member since Aug 2016
10318 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:20 pm to
I agree with the "mechanical" comment. If Jay is the one making all these pitching change decisions he doesn't seem to have an intuitive feel for it.

Seems he just "goes by the book" most times with these match-ups.

Bottom line (whether it is coaches or players to blame) is that it ain't working. That much is clear as can be.
Posted by jose
Houma
Member since Feb 2009
29374 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

Still to this day ripping my hair out that the best first baseman in college baseball is playing in left field


He’s made some incredible plays in left field too. But I agree.

If we can just throw strikes and let them put the ball in play, I much rather Tre at first making his routine highlight reel plays. Rather than Jones just missing them.
Posted by Yeti_Chaser
Member since Nov 2017
9708 posts
Posted on 5/15/23 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

One positive note is school's out and they have the opportunity to spend lots of time at the facility to get this right.

School has been out for Wes and he hasn't changed anything. Not like the pitchers can spend more time at the facility practicing shaking off calls
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