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IMO we need to change our pitching approach
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:06 am
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:06 am
I've been trying to wrap my head around this bullpen bullshite, and this is what I think is going on.
We are pitching to no contact. You can see this approach with the large number of strikeouts. But you can also see this with the large number of walks and hits.
Yes, we get a lot of strikeouts, but we also fall behind a frick ton of counts. So what's the outcome? We will either get the strike out, walk the batter, or have to groove a pitch after getting down in the count. That's why you see the weird stat sheet. Lots of strikeouts, lots of walks, and lots of hits.
This is an MLB approach without having MLB arms that can command the zone with their off-speed pitches. Stop fricking doing this shite. These are college kids with college level control. It works with Skenes, but he's literally an MLB pitcher. We have one of those and we seem to have a pitching strategy that assumes we have a roster full of them.
This is on Wes. This isn't the Twins. Just change this approach with everyone not named Skenes, and I think this will stop. Otherwise we're going to frick this up. We don't have the skill sets to execute what Wes is doing.
Again, JMHO.
We are pitching to no contact. You can see this approach with the large number of strikeouts. But you can also see this with the large number of walks and hits.
Yes, we get a lot of strikeouts, but we also fall behind a frick ton of counts. So what's the outcome? We will either get the strike out, walk the batter, or have to groove a pitch after getting down in the count. That's why you see the weird stat sheet. Lots of strikeouts, lots of walks, and lots of hits.
This is an MLB approach without having MLB arms that can command the zone with their off-speed pitches. Stop fricking doing this shite. These are college kids with college level control. It works with Skenes, but he's literally an MLB pitcher. We have one of those and we seem to have a pitching strategy that assumes we have a roster full of them.
This is on Wes. This isn't the Twins. Just change this approach with everyone not named Skenes, and I think this will stop. Otherwise we're going to frick this up. We don't have the skill sets to execute what Wes is doing.
Again, JMHO.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 9:12 am
18
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:09 am to Jax Teller
After reading many threads on this topic, I agree with this. We have an MLB approach with collegiate arms.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:11 am to Jax Teller
Kelly did a much better job with what he had in the bullpen last year because we threw a ton of fastballs. He knew the only way we could get outs was for the ball to get put into play. I get it. Wes is trying to be unpredictable in his pitch calling, but he's doing it with a bunch of unrefined college kids. Most of these guys are just learning a slider or breaking ball. They aren't going to be able to locate a damn breaking ball in a fricking 3 ball count.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 9:20 am
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:12 am to Jax Teller
I agree with all of this. If we pitch to contact and not give a ton of free passes, I like our chances against just about everyone. This team is going to hit. One positive note is school's out and they have the opportunity to spend lots of time at the facility to get this right.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:18 am to Jax Teller
Another problem is when the ball is put in play and the infielders have to throw to 1st base. I’ve never seen a team so bad at throwing the ball to first. I’m on the edge of my seat with every ground ball hit.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:26 am to Jax Teller
At one point yesterday you could see Ackenhausen look over to Wes Johnson with a sort of “what the frick” expression after Ackenhausen looked at the pitch watch.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:28 am to Asleepinthecove
I think Jay bought into this approach because he knows the infield is suspect.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:28 am to Asleepinthecove
quote:
Another problem is when the ball is put in play and the infielders have to throw to 1st base. I’ve never seen a team so bad at throwing the ball to first. I’m on the edge of my seat with every ground ball hit.
Our defense has improved. Defense isn't our problem. What you are seeing I think is a byproduct of the aforementioned pitching strategy. It must be exhausting trying to stay engaged in the field while this staff is forced to throw 50 pitches an inning trying to get 3 strikeouts.
Let them get hit. The defense will be ready and we will see the defense do what it has been doing. Being pretty damn reliable.
All of this is snowballing. Throw fastballs as a strategy to get ahead in counts. Defense will know the ball might be coming. They can stay engaged in the field. We've seen them be able to play the field fine. But when you are sitting out there watching the merry-go-round, it has to be deflating. That can lead to errors. Mental.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 9:29 am
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:31 am to Jax Teller
quote:
Our defense has improved. Defense isn't our problem.
Defense is definitely one of our problems. Jones and White are absolute liabilities in the field.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:33 am to Jax Teller
Does Wes still not understand this this late into the season. That's more of a concern imo if that's the case. I'm not very confident things will change at this point. It's almost too late. We are what we are
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:38 am to Jax Teller
We've got 2 guys pitching for K's (Floyd & Skenes)
It's the 3-0 & 3-1 counts that are killing us.
It's the 3-0 & 3-1 counts that are killing us.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:41 am to lsusteve1
quote:
We've got 2 guys pitching for K's (Floyd & Skenes)
It's the 3-0 & 3-1 counts that are killing us.
All of them are pitching for K's.
The 3-0 and 3-1 counts are because we can't throw the off speed for a strike. We throw off-speeds all fricking game. Because we don't want contact. We want K's.
Skenes and Floyd (when he's on) are the only ones that can do this. The rest can't.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:43 am to Jax Teller
quote:
All of them are pitching for K's.
The 3-0 and 3-1 counts are because we can't throw the off speed for a strike. We throw off-speeds all fricking game. Because we don't want contact. We want K's.
Agree to disagree
It's really simple, get ahead and make them hit your pitch. We rarely do this.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:48 am to Jax Teller
quote:
This is an MLB approach without having MLB arms that can command the zone with their off-speed pitches.
This is a really good take. Honestly.
It's why you see Skenes and (now) Floyd having so much success. I get the philosophy, but you have to be around the zone for it to work. Otherwise, teams will take until they get a fat fastball. Most off-speed pitches our guys are throwing early in counts seem (at least to me) to be swing and miss type pitches instead of get-me-over stuff. Every team we face is going to take until they get a fast ball or down 2 strikes with every arm that comes out of the pen.
This post was edited on 5/15/23 at 9:50 am
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:51 am to lsusteve1
quote:
Agree to disagree
It's really simple, get ahead and make them hit your pitch. We rarely do this.
I am agreeing with you?
That's what this whole thread is about. Throw strikes and make them hit you. And by strikes I mean fastballs. And stop trying to get strikeouts by throwing backwards. Throw fastballs to get ahead and use the off speed to get a K when you have the opportunity. We do this backwards and it doesn't work.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:57 am to GeauxLSU4
quote:
I agree with all of this. If we pitch to contact and not give a ton of free passes, I like our chances against just about everyone. This team is going to hit. One positive note is school's out and they have the opportunity to spend lots of time at the facility to get this right.
I was damn near yelling at the TV saying this. Put the damn ball in play.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 9:59 am to Jax Teller
Easily the most down to Earth description of our pitching approach. Not only does this hit the high points it gives an explanation of the thought process behind it. Our secondary guys/bullpen do not attack the zone whatsoever and fall behind consistently. We have one arm that is capable of living in positive hitting counts while the others can not. They have demonstrated consistently they can not pitch from behind, and they should not be expected to do so. MLB pitchers are comfortable pitching around guys because they are paid to make the pitches when necessary. College pitchers are much more likely to turn one walk into two or three....If our pen is unwilling to attack the zone early and often unfortunately I think we will run out of run way.
It makes me smile seeing someone capable of processing what's actually going on.
It makes me smile seeing someone capable of processing what's actually going on.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:02 am to classicgold
Wes is overthinking his job. He light want to head back to the big leagues
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:15 am to jose
I agree with that philosophy but when you can not locate a fastball and what I mean is on the outside third, inner third, up in the zone, or lower in the zone you are not going to like the results of just let them put it in play very often. These college hitters get a meatball straight down the pipe and it’s gone. Especially if they are sitting fastball. The majority of our pitchers can not locate and have really bad command. There is a difference between pitching strikes and pitching meatballs. Other than Skenes and Floyd our pitchers have no movement on their fastball and it is easy to pickup near the zone and out of their hands. You can see our inability to throw with command by how bad our non competitive or throw away pitches are.
Posted on 5/15/23 at 10:18 am to Jax Teller
I don’t know exactly what you’re saying, but I like the way it sounds.
Interesting to think that our highly paid coaches haven’t thought to do this already with the strike zone as rigid as it is.
Interesting to think that our highly paid coaches haven’t thought to do this already with the strike zone as rigid as it is.
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