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re: If Saban Never Came to LSU...
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:55 pm to bulletprooftiger
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:55 pm to bulletprooftiger
quote:
Fun question is whether you think Auburn would have multiple national championships in the last 24 years without Saban in the SEC.
Nah. Auburn’s only finished top 5 in the AP poll three times since 2000. 2013 they lost in the title game, 2010 they won the title, and they got screwed out of the title game in 04 even with beating Saban.
They’ve had some fun iron bowls against Saban since he’s been at Alabama but it’s not like Auburn losing to Saban (at LSU or Alabama) has ever kept them out of a national championship run.
2001 they would have still had to go through Tennessee
2
Posted on 7/19/24 at 8:48 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
but it was going to take a lot to hold us back to becoming something and not getting at least 1 when you recognize how many other SEC teams did so in that timeframe.
Just take a look at how shitty the leadership has been at the university and at the state level for the last 40 years.
Even after Saban (and almost as important, Emmert) showed what an economic impact investment in the football team has for the university and state, we’ve had admins and state leaders who still try and frick it all up. E. g. JBE threatening to cancel football season if certain budget provisions weren’t passed by the legislature.
I don’t have any faith that the universiry and state leadership would have ever figured it out without Saban coming in and whipping everyone into shape.
Posted on 7/19/24 at 8:51 am to sidewalkside
Joe Dean wanted to go cheap yet again. Joe Dean would've kept LSU football mired in mediocrity for another decade.
Saban changed the culture. Can't understate how huge that is. Needed to change the mindset not just of administration but of fans and boosters. Get them to realize we could win and win big.
That first big recruiting class he got with Clayton, Hall, Spears, and others was huge. Showed we could compete in February with the big boys.
He got the facilities and the assistant coaches.
None of that happens if Joe Dean is allowed to keep running everything into the ground.
Saban changed the culture. Can't understate how huge that is. Needed to change the mindset not just of administration but of fans and boosters. Get them to realize we could win and win big.
That first big recruiting class he got with Clayton, Hall, Spears, and others was huge. Showed we could compete in February with the big boys.
He got the facilities and the assistant coaches.
None of that happens if Joe Dean is allowed to keep running everything into the ground.
Posted on 7/19/24 at 8:53 am to MrWalkingMan
Yes. But Auburn did that despite Saban building two of their three largest rivals of the era, and Smart building the third in to absolute powerhouses. Who is stopping Tuberville if Saban doesn't show up?
Posted on 7/19/24 at 9:59 am to prplhze2000
quote:
Joe Dean wanted to go cheap yet again. Joe Dean would've kept LSU football mired in mediocrity for another decade.
Saban changed the culture. Can't understate how huge that is. Needed to change the mindset not just of administration but of fans and boosters. Get them to realize we could win and win big.
That first big recruiting class he got with Clayton, Hall, Spears, and others was huge. Showed we could compete in February with the big boys.
He got the facilities and the assistant coaches.
None of that happens if Joe Dean is allowed to keep running everything into the ground.
This sums up the state of LSU football well at the time. Joe Dean
Posted on 7/19/24 at 10:27 am to LSUAlum2001
quote:
He would never be at Alabama, either..
Maybe.
Saban's only good year at Michigan St was 1999. He had barely over a .500 record in his prior 4 seasons there. He wanted to parlay that 1999 season out of MSU. And with Jimmy Sexton as his agent, he was probably looking to go south or the NFL. The problem was the NFL wasn't calling then. The bigger problems is there weren't many great college jobs open eitehr.
LSU's timing though couldn't have been more perfect. LSU was essentially the best job of very few options. Had Saban decided to say at MSU for the 2000 season he may have performed worse than 1999 and lost some of his demand. But had he stayed for the 2000 season and had a great year there would have been several big jobs open to him. Including Alabama.
The following schools hired new coaches after the 2000 season
Alabama
Georgia
Ohio State
USC
Every one of them would have been seen as a better job than LSU at that time. With Sexton as his agent it's a safe bet to assume he would have tried to get Saban in the mix at Alabama and Georgia
Had Saban never come to LSU I think best case scenario is LSU would have been Auburn. Dinardo had started the pipeline of Louisiana players choosing LSU and the new coach likely would have continued it. That would have at least made LSU competitive with a chance to be really good. But LSU would have been inconsistent...much like Auburn.
Posted on 7/19/24 at 12:29 pm to prplhze2000
quote:Cart before the horse.
Joe Dean wanted to go cheap yet again. Joe Dean would've kept LSU football mired in mediocrity for another decade........Saban changed the culture.
I guess Saban, with 1 decent season in his last 5, called up dollar-waitin-on-a-nickel Dean and said "look here Joe you're gonna give me a $M/yr, new facilities, etc and that's just how it's gonna be"
Saban was an important cog in the Emmert flagship vision for LSU that included more than just ball.
Posted on 7/19/24 at 1:10 pm to Mayhawman
quote:
I guess Saban, with 1 decent season in his last 5, called up dollar-waitin-on-a-nickel Dean and said "look here Joe you're gonna give me a $M/yr, new facilities, etc and that's just how it's gonna be"
Bingo!
It is simply amazing to me that people actually believe Saban made LSU pay him $1M+ and commit to a multi-billion dollar construction program on Saban's sheer force of will.
His record at Michigan State was 34–24–1. He went 0–3 in bowl games.
Does anyone actually think the administration and boosters were that impressed with Saban's turtleneck wardrobe?
This post was edited on 7/19/24 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 7/19/24 at 1:28 pm to Salviati
quote:
Bingo!
It is simply amazing to me that people actually believe Saban made LSU pay him $1M+ and commit to a multi-billion dollar construction program on Saban's sheer force of will.
His record at Michigan State was 34–24–1. He went 0–3 in bowl games.
Does anyone actually think the administration and boosters were that impressed with Saban's turtleneck wardrobe?
Very few, if any LSU fans were excited about the Saban hire. At that time the only thing most knew about him was he was the HC whose arse the just fired HC kicked in the Independence Bowl. Yes, he was coming off a good season at MSU, but he had been just over a .500 coach before 1999. Many thought it was crazy to pay a HC $1M per year. Particularly a guy who didn't have an incredibly impressive resume.
Posted on 7/19/24 at 1:39 pm to sidewalkside
Somebody would have figured it out. LSU has always been a sleeping giant.
Posted on 7/19/24 at 1:57 pm to bulletprooftiger
I think auburn would have done better under tubbervulle. His teams were always tough. But once Saban came in that state. He started to lose recruits to Saban and had a disastrous season in 08. If Saban never come to Alabama maybe he does well
Posted on 7/19/24 at 3:48 pm to Salviati
Emmert did NOT go out and get Nick Saban, nor was that hire part of some big Emmert "plan"
Saban fell into LSU's lap after Butch Davis turned them down and all they had was interviews with Phil Bennett and Glen Mason...Jimmy Sexton called Dean out of the blue and unsolicited and pitched Saban...he wasn't even on LSU's radar and Sexton set the starting price at $1.2 million, not Emmert
Dean didn't want to go that high and consulted Emmert who then had to get the OK from chancellor. Emmert DOES get the credit for seeing the value of a winning football program and the decision to pay Saban that much money, but, again, it wasn't part of a master plan he somehow got "executed".
And the video of Nick saying "the coach was TOLD" is NOT saying that Emmert told Saban that's what was to be done, just the opposite...those were the things SABAN requested as part of the agreement to take the job, and that press conference was Saban melting because the administration was dragging their feet on the football facility part of it and Saban was bitching that "the coach was told that these things would be done" and they hadn't been yet
Emmert did a LOT of great things for LSU and was one of the first to recognize the financial benefits to the university of having a successful football program, but Nick Saban turned LSU around and Emmert just happened to be smart enough to cough up the money and (mostly) get out of his way
Saban fell into LSU's lap after Butch Davis turned them down and all they had was interviews with Phil Bennett and Glen Mason...Jimmy Sexton called Dean out of the blue and unsolicited and pitched Saban...he wasn't even on LSU's radar and Sexton set the starting price at $1.2 million, not Emmert
Dean didn't want to go that high and consulted Emmert who then had to get the OK from chancellor. Emmert DOES get the credit for seeing the value of a winning football program and the decision to pay Saban that much money, but, again, it wasn't part of a master plan he somehow got "executed".
And the video of Nick saying "the coach was TOLD" is NOT saying that Emmert told Saban that's what was to be done, just the opposite...those were the things SABAN requested as part of the agreement to take the job, and that press conference was Saban melting because the administration was dragging their feet on the football facility part of it and Saban was bitching that "the coach was told that these things would be done" and they hadn't been yet
Emmert did a LOT of great things for LSU and was one of the first to recognize the financial benefits to the university of having a successful football program, but Nick Saban turned LSU around and Emmert just happened to be smart enough to cough up the money and (mostly) get out of his way
Posted on 7/19/24 at 4:24 pm to LSUfan4444
quote:
LSU was a sleeping giant and as proven by the two baboons that followed him you don't have to be a GOAT to win natty's at LSU.
No, but you need a map.
We had won ONE, a long time before, in a different era. And since that time, LSU hadn't done anything at that level. 8 wins (in an 11 game season) was considered a success, and going 4+ years without a .500 or below season in that stretch was also considered a big accomplishment.
Closest comparison is probably Auburn, who up until the mid 2000's was the most similar program to LSU. Good, capable of beating anyone on a given day, but not going to win it all.
Saban and Miles (yes, Miles) were critical to LSU becoming what we have become. Saban painstakingly restructured and built the program into an elite tier contender; and just as importantly, Miles stepped in and kept it consistently there for a decade. He knew enough to not try to frick with things. In contrast, Orgeron came in, made a run with what Miles had in place (and some new energy), then tried to mess with things to make it 'his'; and things cratered.
Kelly is now rebuilding things, with really the only legacy to Saban (and Miles) being the brand name.
Posted on 7/20/24 at 7:50 am to jlsufan
quote:I guess he asked in front of a mirror, considering Emmert was LSU chancellor that time in '99
Emmert who then had to get the OK from chancellor.
quote:Not true.
.Jimmy Sexton called Dean out of the blue and unsolicited and pitched Saban...he wasn't even on LSU's radar
LSU appointed coach-searcher Gil Brandt contacted an unhappy, but not job hunting acquaintance Saban who expressed interest in the Tiger job.
Posted on 7/20/24 at 9:02 am to Mayhawman
quote:
quote:
Emmert who then had to get the OK from chancellor.
I guess he asked in front of a mirror, considering Emmert was LSU chancellor that time in '99
sorry...typo....I meant president
Posted on 7/20/24 at 9:44 am to Salviati
by Salviati. Excellent post.
There’s always these 2 questions “Did Saban make LSU?” or “Did LSU make Saban?”. Answer to the first question. No. Before Saban, LSU already had a very respectable history. With the disastrous 90’s, LSU was still a top 15 historical program. Minus that aberration called the 90’s, LSU is top 12. Dinardo with great coordinates put LSU back on the map and the state of Louisiana was ranked #1 in high school talent when dinardo was let go and Saban was hired.
Answer to question #2. Yes. Any coach hiring Saban at the time was taking a chance on a coach that went 6-5-1 with a bowl lost to a 6-4-1 team. Saban’s hire at LSU couldn’t have been more perfect as Salviati already poited out with Mark Emmett’s plan and Louisiana’s #1 ranked hs talent that year. Saban won the lottery with that scenario. His desire to coach in the nfl led him to win his second lottery. His hire at Alabama came at just the perfect time when the state of Alabama had the #1 rank hs talent that year. Couple that with his ties to Louisiana hs coaches and the tremendous advantage he will benefit from the SEC office, then that’s the blueprint to his success. Saban will go down as the greatest college coach ever. I hope this brings some light to the “who mad who?” debate. Just remember, it was the historical top 15 program who’s 6-4-1 team beat bad the coach of a team with an identical 6-4-1 record that took the chance.
There’s always these 2 questions “Did Saban make LSU?” or “Did LSU make Saban?”. Answer to the first question. No. Before Saban, LSU already had a very respectable history. With the disastrous 90’s, LSU was still a top 15 historical program. Minus that aberration called the 90’s, LSU is top 12. Dinardo with great coordinates put LSU back on the map and the state of Louisiana was ranked #1 in high school talent when dinardo was let go and Saban was hired.
Answer to question #2. Yes. Any coach hiring Saban at the time was taking a chance on a coach that went 6-5-1 with a bowl lost to a 6-4-1 team. Saban’s hire at LSU couldn’t have been more perfect as Salviati already poited out with Mark Emmett’s plan and Louisiana’s #1 ranked hs talent that year. Saban won the lottery with that scenario. His desire to coach in the nfl led him to win his second lottery. His hire at Alabama came at just the perfect time when the state of Alabama had the #1 rank hs talent that year. Couple that with his ties to Louisiana hs coaches and the tremendous advantage he will benefit from the SEC office, then that’s the blueprint to his success. Saban will go down as the greatest college coach ever. I hope this brings some light to the “who mad who?” debate. Just remember, it was the historical top 15 program who’s 6-4-1 team beat bad the coach of a team with an identical 6-4-1 record that took the chance.
Posted on 7/20/24 at 10:40 am to Scoob
quote:
No, but you need a map.
We had won ONE, a long time before, in a different era. And since that time, LSU hadn't done anything at that level. 8 wins (in an 11 game season) was considered a success,
This is so but I would clarify on a couple things:
1) The "success standard" pre-Arnsparger was beat your rivals (OM and Tulane) and get a good bowl bid. Tiger fans would tolerate a lot as long that was happening. When Bill arrived, he shifted the terms of "success" to championships.
2) We won an SEC for the first time in 16 seasons in '86. We were a fluke loss to Miami of Ohio and a short Browndyke FG vs OM from being undefeated. Likewise, in '87. We were one ill-thrown pass vs tOSU and an injury to Hodson from being undefeated. We finished ranked #5. We were not where we got with Saban but, as you put it, the map was there and we were well on our way.
Posted on 7/20/24 at 11:00 am to AlwysATgr
I've always wondered what the 80's and 90's would have been like had Bo Rein not died...everything you read from folks in the know about him was that he was very saban like in a lot of ways and his trajectory was just starting
Posted on 7/20/24 at 2:40 pm to sidewalkside
one of the greatest, if not the greatest college football coach of all time. And I know some folks cringe at the "he changed the culture" statement, but he did that here.
My LSU fandom started in 1973 and there were some good years in there before Saban, but what he created when he got here was what I'd been waiting for my whole life and had experienced nothing like it until then.
He is the one. No hesitation in my opinion on that, nor will there ever be.
And I'll add as Emmert has emerged in this thread - yes he deserves all the credit for identifying a coach that could help him cut through all the BS here to get his plan through.
Mac could not do it. Stovall couldn't do it. Arnsparger got quickly tired of it and bailed. Miles and O certainly neither of them would have been able to do it.
That hump Saban got over is far more significant than some seem to want to realize.
My LSU fandom started in 1973 and there were some good years in there before Saban, but what he created when he got here was what I'd been waiting for my whole life and had experienced nothing like it until then.
He is the one. No hesitation in my opinion on that, nor will there ever be.
And I'll add as Emmert has emerged in this thread - yes he deserves all the credit for identifying a coach that could help him cut through all the BS here to get his plan through.
Mac could not do it. Stovall couldn't do it. Arnsparger got quickly tired of it and bailed. Miles and O certainly neither of them would have been able to do it.
That hump Saban got over is far more significant than some seem to want to realize.
This post was edited on 7/20/24 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 7/20/24 at 4:17 pm to Tiger Ugly
Didn't read the whole thread, but I seem to remember Saban always knew the best players usually win the game. He saw the state of Lousiana had more players in the NFL than any state per capita...or over all.
It's not hard to figure out. He was confident he could build a program. Some say he wasn't a x%o guy but he does know football.
He also knew the best players will win if the coaching is competent.
I think he showed the powers that be @ LSU.....just commit 100% "as i will" and LSU will become a powerhouse...and they did.
Alabama had to work very hard behind the scenes to get Saban the Miami job so they could hire him, as he was never gonna go from LSU to Bama.
It's not hard to figure out. He was confident he could build a program. Some say he wasn't a x%o guy but he does know football.
He also knew the best players will win if the coaching is competent.
I think he showed the powers that be @ LSU.....just commit 100% "as i will" and LSU will become a powerhouse...and they did.
Alabama had to work very hard behind the scenes to get Saban the Miami job so they could hire him, as he was never gonna go from LSU to Bama.
This post was edited on 7/20/24 at 4:18 pm
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