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re: I don't like the toss lead
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:31 am to Choupique19
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:31 am to Choupique19
quote:Is that highlight of Hill vs. Iowa earlier in this thread the one you like or hate?
Also, for the record, I love a toss sweep.
1
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:35 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Is that highlight of Hill vs. Iowa earlier in this thread the one you like or hate?
Don't try me, I know the difference in toss g and toss sweep. I actually think we ran a few toss sweeps against Arkansas.
Jeremy Hill was running the toss g against Iowa. First play, second play (yes, we ran the same exact play to the opposite for the next play), and many times after.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:41 am to Choupique19
quote:
Don't try me, I know the difference in toss g and toss sweep.
I'm asking a question because I don't know the answer smartass. quote:Were all of those the g and no sweep? I can't find reference to a toss g.
Jeremy Hill was running the toss g against Iowa. First play, second play (yes, we ran the same exact play to the opposite for the next play), and many times after.
Is this not what we run?
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:43 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
how is this a negative? Everything that you said in this statement is what makes it a great play to set up play action off of. Not a diss to you or anyone else, but unless you played linebacker or understand the reads the defense makes, you don't really understand how setting up the play action.
Once the qb tosses the ball, there is no chance at play action. When handing the ball off, the qb will take a few steps to the running back with his back to the line of scrimmage. Safeties still have to stay deep in case of a play action pass. On the toss lead, the ball is out of the qb's hands quickly and the backers and safeties can run down hill to the ball. While I admit that linebackers are reading the down lineman to the ball, the safeties flying down hill can help to stuff the play for minimal gain.
If we are honest, I think we all can admit that for every big play that Jeremy Hill burst through the defense on this play, we had two or three efforts stuffed near the line of scrimmage.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:49 am to AlxTgr
quote:No, this is a toss sweep. We run a toss lead or toss g. The blocking is different and the hole where the play is meant to go is more inside like a traditional lead or dive play.
Is this not what we run?
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:49 am to TigerBlood17
quote:The Saints used to run it under Haslett or Ditka. I forget which.
Name one other team, pro or college, that you have seen run it?
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:52 am to TigerBlood17
It seems like I remember that play being stuffed way too many times on third and short. I'm certainly not a fan of that play either.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:54 am to Choupique19
quote:you do know the qb can fake the toss right? Two things you have to remember is your viewing angle and the viewing angle of the players on the field, especially the play side backers and safeties. You have a QB reversing out, tossing the ball waist high, behind 6'4+ defensive and offensive lineman. The play action off of the toss dive is still in full effect. What you're seeing from the comfort of your tv screen is much different than what the players see.
Once the qb tosses the ball, there is no chance at play action. When handing the ball off, the qb will take a few steps to the running back with his back to the line of scrimmage. Safeties still have to stay deep in case of a play action pass. On the toss lead, the ball is out of the qb's hands quickly and the backers and safeties can run down hill to the ball. While I admit that linebackers are reading the down lineman to the ball, the safeties flying down hill can help to stuff the play for minimal gain.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:54 am to Choupique19
I know this play can get frustrating to watch sometimes. But it's designed to pick up tough yards. And if you can get the defense to over-commit to the middle of the field, the RB can get outside and take it to the house.
That's how Magee scored against A&M.
That's how Magee scored against A&M.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:58 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
you do know the qb can fake the toss right? Two things you have to remember is your viewing angle and the viewing angle of the players on the field, especially the play side backers and safeties. You have a QB reversing out, tossing the ball waist high, behind 6'4+ defensive and offensive lineman. The play action off of the toss dive is still in full effect. What you're seeing from the comfort of your tv screen is much different than what the players see.
Exactly, the play has the same action as the toss sweep and helps set up the sweep very well in keeping the linebackers in tight.
Sometimes they also pull the backside guard in a sliding motion.. depends on the defensive technique but just an example of more flexibility with the play.
This post was edited on 8/26/14 at 10:00 am
Posted on 8/26/14 at 9:59 am to AlxTgr
quote:
I'm asking a question because I don't know the answer smartass.
My bad.
The "toss lead" is a designed inside run. It's nothing different from a regular power play other than the fact that LSU tosses it quickly to the back instead of handing it off. On the "toss g", the play side end and tackle block down, or back. The play side guard pulls and kicks out the end, while the fullback leads through the hole to pick up a linebacker.
Plays one and two of the game vs Iowa. One successful, one for a short gain. 4:18 mark. LINK
Other times we toss it on inside zone run plays. This was the game clincher vs South Carolina two years ago.
Great view at 1:05
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:03 am to Chimlim
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:14 am to Choupique19
quote:
My opinion is that the running back has to watch the ball in to catch a toss, while on a handoff he can be watching the holes open
And he has a set track on said handoff until after he gets the ball. He's able to secure the ball sooner on the toss and is free to cut back earlier
There are pros to both, which is why we run both
This post was edited on 8/26/14 at 10:25 am
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:15 am to TigerBait1127
quote:this!!!! All of this right here!!
And he has a set track on said handoff until after he gets the ball. He's able to secure the ball sooner on the toss and is free to cut back earlier
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:24 am to TigerBlood17
quote:Pay attention this season. Remember, last season, we had a statue at QB. This is no longer the case...
And there are available fakes. The qb draw/ISO can be run off of it. A naked bootleg can be run off of it. Don't forget the available play action passes off of it. has LSU run any of these? And QB/ draw ISO? How does the QB fake the toss and then run a draw? I'm not sure that exists.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:27 am to TigerBlood17
quote:OK, but it sure results in a lot of long runs that are broken outside instead of inside.
No, this is a toss sweep. We run a toss lead or toss g. The blocking is different and the hole where the play is meant to go is more inside like a traditional lead or dive play.
Maybe I should, but I don't watch LSU games with my old film watching mind turned on. I watch them with my wing cooking, beer drinking friend chatting mind turned on. I watch those tosses and never thought about whether they were sweeps. I just know that they often are broken in different spots across the line for various reasons.
Posted on 8/26/14 at 10:59 am to Choupique19
quote:
If we are honest, I think we all can admit that for every big play that Jeremy Hill burst through the defense on this play, we had two or three efforts stuffed near the line of scrimmage
This right cheer!! And then found ourselves in too many 3rd and long situations
Posted on 8/26/14 at 11:01 am to Choupique19
quote:
If we are honest, I think we all can admit that for every big play that Jeremy Hill burst through the defense on this play, we had two or three efforts stuffed near the line of scrimmage.
OMG!!!! A play that didn't work each and every time. The HORROR!!!
Tell us Coach Fish, which of YOUR plays works each and every time?
TIA
Posted on 8/26/14 at 11:04 am to TigerBlood17
LSU has dominant line and running backs
We run 75% of the time anyway. It's no surprise.
We get 3-5 yards every time.
We impose out will with this play
Shut your damn mouth. This is LSU football
We run 75% of the time anyway. It's no surprise.
We get 3-5 yards every time.
We impose out will with this play
Shut your damn mouth. This is LSU football
Posted on 8/26/14 at 11:06 am to RedTigerRulz
quote:There is no way to know if toss vs. hand off was the cause of the failure.
If we are honest, I think we all can admit that for every big play that Jeremy Hill burst through the defense on this play, we had two or three efforts stuffed near the line of scrimmage
This right cheer!! And then found ourselves in too many 3rd and long situations
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