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Message
re: Has LSU football improved under CLM?
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:09 am to monsterballads
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:09 am to monsterballads
quote:
well that's certainly a favorable way to spin it
I understand Saban has 3 NCs and Miles has 1. Good for him for getting voted into a Rematch in 2011 after losing The GAME OF THE CENTURY at home when it was all on the line, or it would likely be 2 and 2.
But how is the SEC title count, which is decided on the field, with no vote or selection process, spinning anything?
Is it not a fact that Saban and Miles have won the SEC the same number of times since 2007?
This post was edited on 10/6/14 at 7:11 am
0
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:12 am to ballscaster
He improved for a couple of years up until 2007, then it was mired in mediocrity for a couple of years then it went up slightly again for year and now it's back down to mediocrity again it even worse. It's just like anything else with Miles it's an enigma nothing a straightforward black-and-white he's always half arse.
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:53 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:Thanks for confirming that 2004 wasn't a bad year as the delusional Miles lovers pretend it was.
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:56 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
So yeah maybe LSU could have gone 10-2 or 11-1, but we just as easily could have gone 5-7.
sounds like most of our years with the exception of 2011
Posted on 10/6/14 at 8:15 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
Saban had the administration build the learning center for athletes, the football operations center and probably a few other things that have a great impact on recruiting...benefitting the next coach. Not to mention saban won a national title showing in state recruits they don't have to go out of state to win titles. Saban took us from a loser to an elite program.
As for Ok. St. Gundy has improved that program dramatically since Les left. I guess he is a much better coach.
absolutely...
Posted on 10/6/14 at 8:44 am to uway
quote:
Thanks for confirming that 2004 wasn't a bad year
Well despite the lengthy list of games that Miles bashers would consider "embarassing" if Miles had coached them, I never once said it was a bad year.
You people are the ones that pick apart Miles' wins with "what ifs" that would have turned those wins into losses and use it as an excuse to spout how Miles holds the talent back and a real coach would win every game handily with so much talent.
I mean you guys pretty much consider the past two 10-3 seasons a mark of the steady decline under Miles right? Saban was 9-3 in year 5 and could have easily been 4-7.
I'm simply pointing out similar games under Saban in his 5th yearin BR.
Posted on 10/6/14 at 8:45 am to White Tiger
Easy. In things that matter, not really. Hell, in 10 years, Les will have 2 SEC titles, which Saban accomplished in 5 years while at LSU. He'll have 1 NC in 10 years, same as Saban had in 5 years.
He'll likely have 2 seasons with losing records in the SEC, while Saban never went less than 5-3 in the SEC.
He'll have 1 top 10 recruiting class in 10 years, same as Saban had in 5 years.
LSU had basically two top 3 (2001 was before current rankings system) and a #1 recruiting class in 5 years under Saban. Les has had 1 top class and two 2nd place classes in 10 years.
In the end, you can't claim Les improved this team at all seeing as what he took over. This team was a 10-3 on average team for Saban's last 3 years. Under Les, LSU has been only had a 2% better winning percentage since Les took over if you include this season so far over Saban and since 2008 has a worse winning percentage than Saban.
So no, LSU hasn't improved under Les. If this season ends 6-7 or 7-6 his overall winning percentage will be lower than Saban's last 4 years.
To explain why I took over Saban's first year, it has to do with the fact that he took over a mess while Miles took over a juggernaut, but I am sure his defenders will claim its somehow the same.
He'll likely have 2 seasons with losing records in the SEC, while Saban never went less than 5-3 in the SEC.
He'll have 1 top 10 recruiting class in 10 years, same as Saban had in 5 years.
LSU had basically two top 3 (2001 was before current rankings system) and a #1 recruiting class in 5 years under Saban. Les has had 1 top class and two 2nd place classes in 10 years.
In the end, you can't claim Les improved this team at all seeing as what he took over. This team was a 10-3 on average team for Saban's last 3 years. Under Les, LSU has been only had a 2% better winning percentage since Les took over if you include this season so far over Saban and since 2008 has a worse winning percentage than Saban.
So no, LSU hasn't improved under Les. If this season ends 6-7 or 7-6 his overall winning percentage will be lower than Saban's last 4 years.
To explain why I took over Saban's first year, it has to do with the fact that he took over a mess while Miles took over a juggernaut, but I am sure his defenders will claim its somehow the same.
This post was edited on 10/6/14 at 9:25 am
Posted on 10/6/14 at 8:46 am to Tiger Voodoo
we put 18 guys in the nfl early...did they make a bcs bowl? win the west? make it to atlanta? Teams with far less talent had better years and made bcs bowls in those 2 years.
Posted on 10/6/14 at 8:49 am to Geauxgurt
quote:
In the end, you can claim Les improved this team at all seeing as what he took over. This team was a 10-3 on average team for Saban's last 3 years.
And it's an 11-2 average under Miles' last 3 years.
Soooooo, improvement?
Posted on 10/6/14 at 9:14 am to dgnx6
quote:
Recruiting rankings say other wise. Nick had 1 #1 class, none of them were on the team in 07. So I guess no body from 05-06-07 contributed to LSU winning games in 07? This is just asinine. We had 8 commitments when saban left and finished with 13 in 05. Les recruited more in one month than saban did in 2 years for that class. Let me tell you, LSU recruits itself yet nick could only get 8 fricking players to commit to the school? You guys are fricking delusional.
Um, you realize that he basically had two #1 classes, right. His 2003 class included just these few players that helped Miles in 2005-2006:
Jamarcus
Bowe
Davis
Flynn (2007 NC winning QB)
Landry
Vincent
Arnold
Broussard
J Daniels
Hollis
C Jackson
Pittman
Zenon
Guys from 2002 class that helped Les in 2005:
Kyle Williams
Dyakowski
Green
Livings
Vaughn
Guys in 2004:
Coleman
Alexander
Dorsey
Doucet
Favorite
Helms
Hester
Chevis Jackson
Tyson Jackson
H Johnson
Q Johnson
Kuale
Miller
Steltz
Curtis Taylor
Wroten
Yup no players there that helped LSU in 2005-2007. They were all Miles' players, right?
Let's look just at the ones on his NC team shall we?
Flynn*
Doucet*
Dorsey*
Steltz*
Herman Johnson*
Helms*
Stewart*
Hester*
Tyson Jackson*
Chevis Jackson*
Coleman*
Zenon*
Alexander*
Pittman*
Sanders*
So 15 of 22 starters on the 2007 NC team were players recruited by Saban 4 or 5 years earlier, but Les won that title with his talent, right?
Posted on 10/6/14 at 9:22 am to Geauxgurt
quote:
players recruited by Saban 4 or 5 years earlier
We're back to this now???
Did Saban coach those kids via telephone in 05, 06, and throughout 07 when they were beating Saban himself on the way to a title???
When does the Mike Shula statue go up in Tuscaloosa for recruiting Saban's only players to go undefeated???
Even if 07 was "Saban's players", the 2011 team of Les' players went undefeated to win the SEC at 13-0 with only one game decided by less than 2 TDs.
So the Les only wins with Saban players is obviously wrong there, since "Miles' players" in 2011 won more and more impressively than "Saban's" in 07.
Or we could just leave that embarassingly juvenile line of thought in 2009 where it belongs.
This post was edited on 10/6/14 at 9:23 am
Posted on 10/6/14 at 9:28 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
And it's an 11-2 average under Miles' last 3 years.
LSU would at best finish this season at 11-2, and we all know that ain't happening. What happens if LSU goes 6-6?
Les will have had a 3 year run of 10-3, 10-3, and 6-6, and an average of 8.67-4. Saban after rebuilding, finished his last 3 years at 8-5, 13-1, and 9-3 for an average of 10-3.
Again, when did Saban ever lose more than 3 SEC games in a year while here? Hell, Miles accomplished 5 losses in the SEC in his 4th year!
This post was edited on 10/7/14 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 10/6/14 at 9:30 am to Geauxgurt
quote:
What happens if LSU goes 6-6?
I would be wrong b/c I am thinking 4-8
Posted on 10/6/14 at 9:30 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
We're back to this now???
When people are claiming that only 1 recruited player from Saban affected that team? Yes. We are going to bring it up.
Posted on 10/6/14 at 12:57 pm to uway
quote:
Saban went 9-3 in 2004. Would have been a 10-win season in the 12 game regular season format.
We were a last second Hail Mary away from the equivalent of one of Miles vaunted seasons (11-2) yet that is the season Miles defenders point to as proof the program wasn't in great shape when he took over.
People have been lying on this site about that season ever since they started having to defend Les Miles.
he also got blown out by Georgia 45-16 genius
Posted on 10/6/14 at 6:53 pm to Dalosaqy
quote:
The issue instead is what he has left in the tank.
At this point it looks less than half full. As I said I am not sure whether it is better or worse, but your assertion in the absence of any argument is not persuasive.
Posted on 10/6/14 at 6:59 pm to White Tiger
The football has improved dramatically in every category but on the field with concerns to strategy, player development and discipline with regards to on the field play.
Graduation rates, outside criminal activity as compared to other programs, facilities, notoriety, recruiting have all gotten tremendously better. We have a clean and correctly run program. It's like Joe Paternos grand experiment part 2, however we suffer on the field because of it.
Graduation rates, outside criminal activity as compared to other programs, facilities, notoriety, recruiting have all gotten tremendously better. We have a clean and correctly run program. It's like Joe Paternos grand experiment part 2, however we suffer on the field because of it.
This post was edited on 10/6/14 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:09 pm to jdd267
quote:
yet that is the season Miles defenders point to as proof the program wasn't in great shape when he took over.
So let me get this straight...LSU started the 2005 season ranked #5 SIMPLY because Les Miles was the coach...without a single game under his belt at LSU?? Yeah, the program was in TERRIBLE shape in 2004.
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:14 pm to White Tiger
Yes/
Posted on 10/6/14 at 7:16 pm to Topwater Trout
Replace Les with Saban and the results the same. LSU made Saban
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