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Started By
Message
re: Fulton Breaks the Rule
Posted on 8/10/18 at 8:12 am to LSUcajun77
Posted on 8/10/18 at 8:12 am to LSUcajun77
quote:
NCAA gives wrist slaps for stolen guns and drugs and 26 games (two full seasons) for attempting to cheat a urine test because he thought it was for weed.
And all of this was known prior to the offense buttercup
This post was edited on 8/10/18 at 8:13 am
0
Posted on 8/10/18 at 9:11 am to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
This is bullshite, he willl be 20 years old in a few weeks.
Yeah and when this happened he was like 18 right? That's a damn kid. So not really bullshite. He has already done 18 months of this. But hey all further players should learn from this. If its weed just don't mess with the sample. Let it go. Take your couple weeks and move on.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 9:41 am to Big EZ Tiger
quote:
One year always seems to be the harshest penalty unless they killed someone or something.
Criminal penalties notwithstanding, he wouldn't have been suspended 2 years if he had killed the head of NCAA compliance. Maybe we have a walk-on who is willing to take a suspension for the team?
Not kill the man/woman necessarily, but at least beat him/her severely enough that they rethink 2 years for a passed drug test.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 2:31 pm to Philippines4LSU
quote:youre being disingenuous. You know full well the penalty is for cheating (or attempting to cheat) on a drug test. The penalty is written in black and white. Is it too harsh? Maybe, but that's not the issue right now. The penalty is what it is. If you want it changed, then convince the NCAA to go through their rule making process and change it.
they rethink 2 years for a passed drug test.
But you can't honestly expect them to ignore their existing clear penalty, just because the guy plays for us.
Would you feel the same if Fulton played for Alabama? Or would you crucify him for cheating?
Posted on 8/10/18 at 2:41 pm to BigSquirrel
quote:
Meanwhile Hootie and Cam get busted in a car full of drugs with a stolen firearm (5 years min) and get suspended for 0 games from the NCAA. But God forbid you cheat on a test.
Find the paragraph in the NCAA rule book that deals with this issue. Hint, you won't. The NCAA has no jurisdiction over criminal issues. An athlete can be busted for possession and the NCAA can do nothing, unless he takes a urinalysis and fails.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 2:47 pm to Solo Cam
you don't understand how bylaws work, do you?
Posted on 8/10/18 at 4:27 pm to LSUcajun77
quote:
Don’t give me that shite. The sentence was and still is excessive.
According to.......you?
quote:
There are always ways to pay the consequences, learn and be redeemed without needing to serve a full punishment.
I wonder if you would feel the same if a drunk driver killed someone close to you.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 6:15 pm to Solo Cam
quote:agreed --- but you've got to change the rule by (wait for it)... following the rules for changing the rules.
If the rule doesn’t make sense, change the rule.
You can't just ignore the rules and not enforce them because you don't like them. Otherwise, you'd have chaos.
Surely you understand this, right?
Posted on 8/10/18 at 6:26 pm to atltiger6487
The problem is that there are 3 separate by-laws which he could be charged under. The NCAA chose the one with the 2 year penalty and haven’t given a reason why. Apparently the 3 by laws all have vague and ambiguous definitions and someone somewhere decided that Fulton deserved 2 years instead of 1.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 6:30 pm to Irish LSU Fan
quote:
I wonder if you would feel the same if a drunk driver killed someone close to you.
There is a reason that people who are emotionally tied to such tragedies aren't the ones writing the laws
Posted on 8/10/18 at 9:33 pm to memphis tiger
quote:That's a good question.
quote:
but wasn't this punishment known before Fulton even took the test? The NCAA is just enforcing it's rule.
It's not as if the NCAA just made up this penalty for Fulton's specific case.
If you think the punishment is too severe, ok, lobby the NCAA to change the rule, according to whatever procedures they use to make rules. But that should be moving forward, not retroactive.
While that may be true, does the NCAA enforce every rule consistently every time?
If not then Fulton has aegitmate argument that he is being treated unfairly
Honestly, this isn't about a piss test result, for drugs or PEDs. This is about intentionally planning on falsifying the test results, by getting someone else's pee and bringing it in. It's not even like he was taking a masking agent, or anything else.
I've seen this on TV/movies, don't think I've ever heard of someone being busted in real life doing it.
What's the penalty if you get busted turning in someone else's academic work as your own?
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:05 pm to Earthquake
From the NCAA .PDF on drug tests
Seems to me that it makes much more sense as 3.3 "attempts to alter the integrity of the collection process" than "clearly observed tampering with an NCAA drug test sample."
If we're arguing technicalities then it shouldn't be an NCAA drug test sample until it is in the custody of the person giving the test. Which in my mind wouldn't be until the custody seal is put on the bottle.
quote:
3.2. Student-athletes who test positive for a banned
substance, or who breach NCAA protocol, are subject
to loss of eligibility and may be future tested for all
NCAA banned substances by the NCAA at any time.
Drug-testing penalties are legislated under NCAA Bylaw
18.4.1.4 Ineligibility for Use of Banned Drugs.
3.3. Breach of Protocol. A student-athlete will be in
breach of protocol and treated as if there was a positive
test for a banned substance other than an illicit drug if
the student-athlete:
• Fails to arrive at the collection station without
justification as determined by Drug Free Sport;
• Fails to provide a urine specimen according
to collection procedures;
• Leaves the collection station without
authorization from the certified collector before
providing a specimen according to protocol; or
• Attempts to alter the integrity of the collection
process.
A breach of protocol will be documented by the
certified collector.
3.4. Tampering. A student-athlete who is involved in
a case of clearly observed tampering with an NCAA
drug-test sample, as documented by a drug-testing
crew member, shall be charged with the loss of a
minimum of two seasons of competition in all sports
and shall remain ineligible for all regular-season and
postseason competition during the time period
ending two calendar years (730 days) from the
date of the tampering.
Seems to me that it makes much more sense as 3.3 "attempts to alter the integrity of the collection process" than "clearly observed tampering with an NCAA drug test sample."
If we're arguing technicalities then it shouldn't be an NCAA drug test sample until it is in the custody of the person giving the test. Which in my mind wouldn't be until the custody seal is put on the bottle.
This post was edited on 8/10/18 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:10 pm to KamaCausey_LSU
It seems to me that to uphold the ruling the NCAA must clearly define many of the terms in the by-laws.
What constitutes custody and at what point is it considered an NCAA Drug Test Sample.
They should be forced to clarify and define a breach of protocol vs tampering.
What constitutes custody and at what point is it considered an NCAA Drug Test Sample.
They should be forced to clarify and define a breach of protocol vs tampering.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:12 pm to LSUcajun77
How many times has the NCAA issued a two year ban on a player? And it’s a first time offense for attempting to tamper when the protocol wasn’t even followed. There is so much wrong with this it has to be LSU.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:26 pm to BillyBobfan24_7
I find it funny that a player who attempts to cheat on a drug test gets two year or 26 games but the Miami basketball coach who was found to have “lack of institutional control” because they were involved in the Shapiro scandal got a a suspension of the first 5 games of the regular season. Which in basketball is nothing. Yes there were plenty of other sanctions for the school both self imposed and more but personally that’s all the head coach got for what is considered a “death penalty” violation.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:31 pm to Irish LSU Fan
quote:
I wonder if you would feel the same if a drunk driver killed someone close to you.
Yes, cheating on a drug test is equal to vehicular manslaughter or homicide.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:33 pm to atltiger6487
quote:
agreed --- but you've got to change the rule by (wait for it)... following the rules for changing the rules.
You can't just ignore the rules and not enforce them because you don't like them. Otherwise, you'd have chaos.
They do it all the time.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:43 pm to KamaCausey_LSU
quote:
t seems to me that to uphold the ruling the NCAA must clearly define many of the terms in the by-laws.
What constitutes custody and at what point is it considered an NCAA Drug Test Sample.
They should be forced to clarify and define a breach of protocol vs tampering.
This. Without defining the terms of altering vs tampering I feel like there is a lot of room for interpretation. If it’s a rule it should be clear as day as to what determines the punishment. Altering protocol sounds like the sample hasn’t been collected vs tampering with a sample makes it sound like post collection.
Posted on 8/10/18 at 10:47 pm to Howyouluhdat
And you as well. You mentioned “them” 3 more times.
Posted on 8/11/18 at 6:38 am to Chipand2Putts
If you're a moron and you accept things that are wrong in life, sure. But if you're an American and believe that punishment should fit the crime...well.
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