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re: Does the 1987 BB Team win it all if John Williams stayed for his junior year?
Posted on 6/25/24 at 6:31 am to tigersbb
Posted on 6/25/24 at 6:31 am to tigersbb
quote:
Had the refs assessed Bobby Knight with the two technicals as they should have and ejected him instead of being intimidated the rest of the game the
Tigers would have won by 8 to 10 points and sailed into New Orleans for the Final Four. LSU d d not lose in the Dome back then.
Both things above are true, Knight should have been assessed a second tech and the refs did swallow the whistle on some fouls down the stretch when Indiana made their comeback.
However, the Hoosiers could not stop Nikita, yet we went to the four corners and quit getting him the ball. That was also a mistake.
Both of these reasons can be true and are IMHO.
as for the John Williams question - tough to say. The team was really not that good regular season and was a bit fortunate that they even made the tourney, but they jelled for the post-season - SEC tourney included. Who knows if they would have jelled with Big John. Defense was a main reason they made the run and that was not Big John's strength - but he was a talent for sure. He did say when he was here for one of the 86 team reunions it was one of his biggest regrets not coming back for another year.
0
Posted on 6/25/24 at 9:37 am to Pu2kph0
quote:this is correct.
No disrespect intended, but I was at LSU during this era. Watched a lot of LSU basketball. Went to more games than I could count. Dale could recruit, but he was a terrible X & O guy. When the situation called for strategy and coaching acumen, LSU was fricked.
This is an immutable truth.
I too was at LSU in the 80s and watch tons of basketball. Dale was an abysmal x and o coach, everybody knew that. Great recruiter and motivator, but he didn't know what to do with elite talent.
Hell, in 1989, we had Chris Jackson, Shaq, Stanley Roberts, Vernel Singleton, and other very good role players, and couldn't even win the SEC or advance past the second round of the NCAAs.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 9:43 am to Manswers
quote:
Does the 1987 BB Team win it all if John Williams stayed for his junior year?
Dale Brown was a great recruiter & motivator. He was not a good basketball coach. I can't help but think he would have found a way to lose a game he should have won.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 10:13 am to Jim Hopper
quote:
Dale Brown was still the coach so no.
Brown was by no means an elite coach, but he was damn good. That '87 team had no business making the tourney run they did. It was an average SEC team talent wise and they were a missed free throw from their 2nd best FT shooter from beating the best team in the country and making a second consecutive final four.
The two best players were Nikita and Anthony Wilson and it dropped off significantly from there.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 10:52 am to Basura Blanco
Everyone saying that Dale was a bad coach didn't see the total confusion in the eyes of the Georgetown PG as he was trying to figure out what defense we were in each time down the court.
Yes, the Freak Defense was a matchup zone, but it was more. The matchup system would be dictated not from the bench, but based on which opposing player brought the ball up the court and where on the court he did so. It was so effective that it took teams talent to the Final Four and Elite Eight through several teams that were objectively more talented.
Nobody has been able to re-create a defense that did what the Freak Defense did.
Yes, the Freak Defense was a matchup zone, but it was more. The matchup system would be dictated not from the bench, but based on which opposing player brought the ball up the court and where on the court he did so. It was so effective that it took teams talent to the Final Four and Elite Eight through several teams that were objectively more talented.
Nobody has been able to re-create a defense that did what the Freak Defense did.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 11:42 am to Thorny
only if jose doesnt shoot the ball
Posted on 6/25/24 at 11:53 am to tigersbb
I was also there during this time. To say dale couldn't coach is ridiculous. Was he as good a coach as Bobby Knight. No. But you don't win like Dale did and not be able to coach. And he was smart enough to have great basketball minds on his staff like Tex Winters for instance. That was the golden era of LSU sports and LSU basketball was relevant and fun. You may never see anything like it again at LSU. You may never know what it's like to camp out in front of the PMAC overnight just to make sure you get great student seats for an 11;00 a.m. tipoff. Those were the days!
Posted on 6/25/24 at 12:25 pm to Pu2kph0
Dale's best x and o years were when he had Tex Winter
Posted on 6/25/24 at 12:51 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
Dale's best x and o years were when he had Tex Winter
You know I see this posted A LOT here and twice in this thread. Tex was a brilliant basketball mind. But he was only here for one year 83-84, we had a pretty talented roster but underachieved IMHO, went 18-11 and 11-7 in the SEC.
We were a 7 seed in the tourney and lost to a lower seeded Dayton who we were favored fairly comfortably to beat....by 8 points....and it wasn't really that close.
So as good as Tex was not the best example to use to prop up the Dale couldn't coach theory....which I'm somewhere in the middle on. Better examples of the argument if you are in that camp would be Huckaby and Art Tolis.
Abernathy was a recruiter and a players coach guy, he was not an X and O guy as his post LSU career would prove out.
This post was edited on 6/25/24 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 6/25/24 at 1:05 pm to Thorny
oliver brown and bernard woodside were great defenders in the freak defense
remember the freak defense signal.
two fists raised up over head
remember the freak defense signal.
two fists raised up over head
Posted on 6/25/24 at 1:07 pm to tigersbb
In the modern age of college basketball Dale would have been fired after his 4th season. He went 14-10 his first season then followed that up with 3 straight losing seasons. The next season 76-77 he went 15-12 but 8-10 in the conference. He then left the program on 4 straight losing seasons. Got his panties in a wad when he saw Will Wade was on the path to destroy his legacy at LSU. Called in the big guys, Temple, Lipsey, and his media buddy Vitale to ruin Wade. How can anyone have any respect what so ever for Daddy Dale and his selfish antics toward LSU basketball?
Posted on 6/25/24 at 1:55 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
oliver brown and bernard woodside were great defenders in the freak defense
So very true.
Lots of people want to blame Dale for going 4 corners in the Indiana loss, but Bernard Woodside fouling out was also a huge moment. He had kept Steve Alford from scoring from the floor through the whole game.
GEAUX TIGERS
Posted on 6/26/24 at 6:20 am to Thorny
quote:
Lots of people want to blame Dale for going 4 corners in the Indiana loss,
And I still do.
quote:Agreed, he did a great job on Alford, but we were up 9 late and quit getting the ball to the guy Indiana had no answer for - Nikita Wilson....we kept getting him the ball we would have kept scoring and it would not have mattered what Alford did down the stretch.
but Bernard Woodside fouling out was also a huge moment.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 2:30 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:
The two best players were Nikita and Anthony Wilson and it dropped off significantly from there
You must have forgotten how money Daryl Joe was from the top of the key during the tournament. That was the first year of the 3pt line and it paid off for us big time.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 3:33 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
Dale's best x and o years were when he had Tex Winter
no, Winter was at LSU one season
what you might be thinking of was 1979-83 when Rick Huckabay was on staff
Brown as the HC, Huckabay as the tactician and Ron Abernathy as the recruiter was the best basketball staff LSU has ever had.
Huckabay went to Marshall and became a very good HC there.
quote:
In 1983 he was hired at Marshall, where he compiled a 129–59 record, including three appearances in the NCAA tournament and one in the NIT before resigning in 1989 amid an investigation into recruiting.[
Brown was never a great tactical HC, he was always more of a CEO type
Posted on 6/26/24 at 9:37 pm to michael corleone
John Williams Was a grown man. Other players looked like teen-agers next to him.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 9:52 pm to Manswers
That would be John "Hot Plate" Williams to distinguish him from John "Hot Rod" Williams playing 60 miles to the south.
PS Ricky Blanton was the key to '86
PS Ricky Blanton was the key to '86
Posted on 6/26/24 at 10:01 pm to Pu2kph0
quote:
Dale could recruit, but he was a terrible X & O guy. When the situation called for strategy and coaching acumen, LSU was fricked.
Exactly! Look at what he did, or didn’t do with all the talent he had. He made runs here and there but all those close games came down to coaching, and he was out coached every time.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 6:51 pm to Manswers
Yes they do.
Posted on 6/30/24 at 7:52 pm to mcspufftiger7
Something changed in Dale after that Elite 8 loss to Indiana in '87. Before that he had confidence and consistently was competitive, even with inferior teams.
Dale's last four teams were losers, never better than 5-11 in the SEC, went out first round of the SEC tourney each year, and had losses to the likes of Radford, Coppin St, Jackson St and Samford. It really was sad; a very capable and well-respected coach just stayed there too long.
Dale's last four teams were losers, never better than 5-11 in the SEC, went out first round of the SEC tourney each year, and had losses to the likes of Radford, Coppin St, Jackson St and Samford. It really was sad; a very capable and well-respected coach just stayed there too long.
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