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re: Daniels is the best running QB and 2nd best passing QB in LSU history. Think about that.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:36 am to biglego
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:36 am to biglego
Hodson Jr & Sr Years:
1988 Comp/Att 154-293 Pct 52.6 Yds 2,074 Per Att 7.1 TD 13 Int 12 Rtg 118.5
1989 Comp/Att 183-317 Pct 57.7 Yds 2,655 Per Att 8.4 TD 22 Int 12 Rtg 143.4
So you mean to tell me a guy who barely completed half his passes and had 24 INTS in year 3 and 4 in the system is a superior passer?
Cherry pick much, the 1989 team was a train wreck chemistry wise, not TH's fault- you gonna leave out his first two years? Look, IDK if he is a bettor passer than JD or not, nor do you- but going back and ONLY showing bad years is unfair- also go check % completions in the 1980's- NO ONE was at 65%, different game, different time
1988 Comp/Att 154-293 Pct 52.6 Yds 2,074 Per Att 7.1 TD 13 Int 12 Rtg 118.5
1989 Comp/Att 183-317 Pct 57.7 Yds 2,655 Per Att 8.4 TD 22 Int 12 Rtg 143.4
So you mean to tell me a guy who barely completed half his passes and had 24 INTS in year 3 and 4 in the system is a superior passer?
Cherry pick much, the 1989 team was a train wreck chemistry wise, not TH's fault- you gonna leave out his first two years? Look, IDK if he is a bettor passer than JD or not, nor do you- but going back and ONLY showing bad years is unfair- also go check % completions in the 1980's- NO ONE was at 65%, different game, different time
1
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:37 am to Rickdaddy4188
That's why "ranter" was coined almost 20 years ago
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:39 am to Fat Bastard
quote:Jesus FB...you're trying way too hard
look this usually does not happen in a 5th year after his past 4 years starting but somehow he flipped a switch and now has way better pocket presence and is throwing downfield instead of taking all those sacks he did last year. however, it still does not mean he throws better than those i listed or has a faster processor. it is the same ones who bragged about his comp rate last year when his intermediate and deep numbers wwere nowhere near as good thuis the short balls being why his comp rate was so high. but they did not want to accept that.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's why "ranter" was coined almost 20 years ago
True.... but the real crazy part is... even using the eye test.. JD is playing the position better than any lsu qb not named Joe Burrow.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:52 am to secfballfan
quote:
Cherry pick much, the 1989 team was a train wreck chemistry wise, not TH's fault- you gonna leave out his first two years?
I used junior and senior seasons because Jayden's LSU career is only these two years.
If the 1989 team was so bad, why was Hodson's numbers better? Also Tommy wasn't even top 20 in completion percentage those 2 years.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 9:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Denbrock is much improved with a better offense that doesn't require JD to literally do everything. That's the primary difference. JD is only marginally better.
I think this seriously understates the leap Daniels has made.
He isn’t marginally better. I said all off season he just needed to trust what he was seeing and throw the ball instead of waiting a second to think about it.
and that’s small change has drastically improved him as a QB. but he is significantly better .
I bever agreed with the people who said he couldn’t read defenses or go through progressions.
he was just needed confidence.
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 10:00 am
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:01 am to AlaTiger
Closer to #6-10 as a passer. Stats have to be thrown out because of the style of play of this era. He is still late on many passes. He is not yet comfortable throwing before the break. He throws to a receiver, not a spot. This is one of the reasons he throws so few picks. Many INTs in the modern era are thrown because the QB throws to a spot and the WR isn't a tight route.
Overall game, I'd put him in the top 5.
Overall game, I'd put him in the top 5.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:05 am to Locoguan0
besides Joe, who do you have over him?
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:10 am to Donkus
He was top 5-10 nationally in multiple major passing categories for 4 straight seasons. You guys just don’t understand how and why stats have exploded over the past 10+ years so you’ll never be able to make honest comparisons involving multiple eras.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You mean the people using stats are using "feel" and the ones using subjective measures to promote their feelings are using logic?
There is no objective definition of “best passer”. Some may want to use bare stats without context. Others might think that makes no sense at all.
Personally I would be skeptical if someone was purely using stats to arrive at the conclusion that the two best passers in the history of LSU football both played in the last 4 years.
I do understand, however, that some of you aren’t comfortable with ambiguity so you ignore context to focus only on numbers.
Also some of y’all just want to derive personal satisfaction from the fact that you were in the group that didn’t criticize Daniels when he wasn’t doing as well as he is now.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:28 am to SammyTiger
How can anyone not consider Bert Jones the second best QB in LSU history? And I am a big fan of JD. Consider this:
Bert Jones -
First LSU QB to be consensus All American
Voted National Player OF The Year by Sporting News
4th in Heisman voting
2nd overall pick in draft
NFL:
Offensive Player Of The Year
All Pro
Season passing leader
Pro Bowl
George Halas Award
Bert Jones -
First LSU QB to be consensus All American
Voted National Player OF The Year by Sporting News
4th in Heisman voting
2nd overall pick in draft
NFL:
Offensive Player Of The Year
All Pro
Season passing leader
Pro Bowl
George Halas Award
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:33 am to Earnest_P
The stats argument is short sighted because despite the “facts” nobody in their right mind would ever call Jordan Jefferson a better QB or passer than Joe Montana even though JJs stats were better.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:36 am to Madking
If the 1989 team was so bad, why was Hodson's numbers better? Also Tommy wasn't even top 20 in completion percentage those 2 years.
Because they were very often way behind, see Tennessee, FSU, A&M etc
Because they were very often way behind, see Tennessee, FSU, A&M etc
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:38 am to Madking
quote:
The stats argument is short sighted because despite the “facts” nobody in their right mind would ever call Jordan Jefferson a better QB or passer than Joe Montana even though JJs stats were better.
People who only use stats intentionally exclude some of the available information. I don’t believe that’s better than attempting to use everything we know/see, even if some of what we know/see isn’t objective.
If nothing else, it’s more interesting that way.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:39 am to Earnest_P
quote:
Personally I would be skeptical if someone was purely using stats to arrive at the conclusion that the two best passers in the history of LSU football both played in the last 4 years.
Why? LSU has a shitty history of QBs.
YA was in the post-WW2 era and Bert Jones was in the early 70s. Then you have Hodson in the late 80s.
Those are the only QBs of any note until Rohan in 2001, when Saban started the modern era of LSU history, which is, by far, it's most successful run. For that reason, it's much more likely that our best play (at many positions) will occur during this run.
Even then, during this modern era, there weren't many elite QBs. Rohan (a stretch), JR, and Mett (again, nationally he wasn't elite). That's almost 20 years of the most talented and successful era of LSU football.
Also, the transfer rules being changed gave us Burrow and Daniels, another variable that makes it more likely we will get top talent.
Summary: historically, even good QB play at LSU is an outlier scenario, so there aren't many guys to even compare to the modern QBs.
quote:
that some of you aren’t comfortable with ambiguity so you ignore context to focus only on numbers.
Numbers (both individually and in comparison to peers) are the best (not only) way to analyze players. They're a hell of a lot more reliable and logical than the "eye test" that so many people want to use.
quote:
Also some of y’all just want to derive personal satisfaction from the fact that you were in the group that didn’t criticize Daniels when he wasn’t doing as well as he is now.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:44 am to Madking
quote:
The stats argument is short sighted because despite the “facts” nobody in their right mind would ever call Jordan Jefferson a better QB or passer than Joe Montana even though JJs stats were better.
Montana is a weird hill to die on. In college he wasn't even a regular starter during his career and was last on the depth chart in the preseason prior to his RS Jr (a rarity at ND in those days) year. I don't think he won any national awards of note, and was drafted in the 3rd (nearly 4th) round.
His NFL career was amazing but his college career was nondescript. Montana (in college) was clearly better than JJ, but did anyone think he was elite?
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:57 am to Pax Regis
Last I checked, people still remember Rohan Davey and Josh Reed.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
Not a hill to die on just a comparison and JJ wasn’t a full time starter for his career either. Let’s do another one, Herb Tyler’s stats are much better than Bert Jones but Jones was the better passer and QB. This is not a one off, there are dozens upon dozens of these examples.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:20 am to SlowFlowPro
One aspect you are missing when discussing QBs.
Quick, someone name the Receivers, for each QB named, that played, not even starred, in the NFL.
Hell, we have better, faster, more skilled WRs on the bench than Jones or Hodson had.
In the famous "Earthquake" game, Hodson had to throw the pass to a running back because he had no dependable WRs. First time he ran the play, Fuller dropped the ball.
They ran one more play, that failed, then repeated the pass to Fuller in the end zone. Fuller caught it and history was made.
Jones' HC hated the forward pass.
Quick, someone name the Receivers, for each QB named, that played, not even starred, in the NFL.
Hell, we have better, faster, more skilled WRs on the bench than Jones or Hodson had.
In the famous "Earthquake" game, Hodson had to throw the pass to a running back because he had no dependable WRs. First time he ran the play, Fuller dropped the ball.
They ran one more play, that failed, then repeated the pass to Fuller in the end zone. Fuller caught it and history was made.
Jones' HC hated the forward pass.
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 11:39 am
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:22 am to Earnest_P
quote:
Personally I would be skeptical if someone was purely using stats to arrive at the conclusion that the two best passers in the history of LSU football both played in the last 4 years.
Considering how the game has changed to be far more pass friendly in the last 15 years or so, it’s not that hard to imagine.
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