View in: Desktop
Copyright @2024 TigerDroppings.com. All rights reserved.
- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Posted by
Message
Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)
Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 10:34 am456
On Will Wade
Like many Tiger fans, the entire Will Wade saga can best be summed up as one of if not the most infuriating and disappointing dramas in Tiger sports history. Point blank it was simply a blood lust from a consortium of people that claim they have college basketballs' best interest at heart but in truth are sell out hypocritical cowards. The Dick Vitales and other sports "journalists" showed their true colors and for 3+ years did everything in their power to see a coach get fired and a program gutted. All of them can go to hell, for over two decades people like Jay Bilas, Dick Vitale, Pete Thamel, and Wolken would constantly moan and complain that college athletics was a business and the athletes should get a cut. Then they would say to further prove their point that coaches and administrators salaries were outrageous given the fact that student athletes would make nothing. So Wade pays his players, family members of his players out of his own pocket, yes it was beyond stupid why there are handlers. And then all of a sudden these cockroaches called sports journalists sing a different tune.
Whether it was a big recruit that had LSU in the mix, tourney seeding, or anytime LSU gained any kind of momentum as a program, hit piece after piece. Then on top of that you have one of the most hypocritical and archaic institutions in the NCAA that could not get Wade on the wiretap so they were never going to leave until they had something. Then you had other established college coaches that felt threatened that would hurt young men just out of spite for Wade.
I do not mind admitting it I really enjoyed and got excited about a Wade led Tigers program, call me a Wade "fanboy" or a groupie but he can flat out coach and he injected life into the program after the rotting carcass Johnny Jones left. CWW was stupid, when everyone in the world knew they were out to get him. CWW will be missed TYFYS, but he also seemingly tore down everything he had built.
Head Coach
43 year old Matt McMahon takes over at LSU after 7 very successful and encouraging years at Murray State. Murray State has long been a proving ground for coaches at the lower D-1/mid major level that want to make the jump to a Power 6 job. While the results are mixed to put it best when it comes to what kind of success those coaches had after they left Murray State. CMM is flat out a winner. There are a lot of similarities between Wade and McMahon. Both are extremely detail oriented and play the long game as program builders. Both are college basketball grinders that truly love the day to day job of the team and individual players getting better everyday (Not every coach is like this). Both have their roots in the upper south. An interesting side note was when Trent Johnson was hired, Oliver Prunell Wade's mentor was on the hiring shortlist. And when Wade was hired one of McMahon's bosses Steve Prohm was on the shortlist.
But there are big differences in how they communicate, what they want to see from their teams and more importantly they are much different in demeanor. McMahon comes from the Buzz Peterson coaching tree, where on offense they will generally start with a single high ball screen and then run dribble kill motion action into their sets. CMM does not want a slow paced offense by any means but his teams will be much more methodical than Wades. A little more patience on offense and a much bigger emphasis on finding mismatches and isolating said mismatches in the post. Both are extremely good developers of talent with CMM biggest hit being of course NBA all-star and probably ALL-NBA PG Ja Morant. On defense where as Wade/Bill Armstrong installed an attack almost manic defensive intensity designed to force turnovers but gamble. CMM defenses do have some pressure packages especially their half court trap defense or "23". Very rarely will CMM go "44" or full court man/press. CMM will employ a token press where the point will stifle the other teams primary ball handler from baseline to baseline and then they will run one “run and jump” trap but back to base defense if the opposing teams don’t shite themselves. But his defenses do not gamble and look to force ball handlers to the sideline and then the bigs clean up the action. On ball screen defense CWW employed a lot of "ice" and straight switches, whereas CMM will look to hard hedge a lot, again allowing his bigs to clean up and guards recover. Neither are better than the other just simply their styles. CMM also after the initial high ball screen will generally go straight into wheel actions, meaning hand offs and a typical motion offense, but what CMM is looking for is how do the low guards that are defending the down screens handle it. CMM teams will generally get 4-5 easy layups off these defenders cheating.
Both CWW and CMM teams over space the floor on offense, Wade teams however are using a pace and space strategy to isolate mismatches and then to the chagrin of many Tiger fans it can seem like simply one on one basketball because it is, but analytically there was a lot more that went into it. CMM will space the floor and constantly use motion and dummy action to lull defenses to sleep and then use quick hitters. CMM is not the same recruiter Wade was. He is much more about developing 3-4 year guys. Now this is not to say he will not have high ranked recruits but it is very unlikely we will have consistent Top-10 classes. However he looks for certain guys that fit a certain role and generally his recruits will commit early in the process. Under Wade there was much more an emphasis on positionless basketball players, whereas with CMM there will be more set roles with guys waiting in the wings to take over when players leave and graduate. I went back and watched the 2019 Murray State – Marquette NCAA tournament game. CMM and MSU as a 12 seed upset Marquette but after watching the game from start to finish what he did was a masterful job in coaching adjustments. Murray was only up 6 at the half but wound up winning by 19 extending the lead to as much as 26. In the first half Marquette would double Morant anytime he came off a screen as a ball handler and then rotate over and leave far corner or wing wide open not a bad strategy. What CMM did was use Morant as the screener and put him in multiple stagger screens while flooding the ball side with the other two offensive players. Basically Ja Morant had 16 assists because the second stag would simply roll and the rotation could never get there. That Marquette team was extremely talented with the nations leading scorer Markus Howard, who torched LSU for 39 earlier in the year, and the Hauser brothers. For defensive adjustments in the first half as CMM teams hard hedge screens Howard and Sam Hauser both in the NBA now, were abusing that they are just talented players. In the second half Murray went to a soft hedge show and recover and pre rotated the bigs. It sounds easy but it shows how well coached his team was that they were able to do something they probably had not had to do all year, implement it and find success. He also was using a wave/platoon approach from the start with his subs besides of course leaving Morant in and it paid off as in the first half they had 8 fastbreak points, in the second half 28. I know Ja Morant can probably make any coach look good, but he is the one that recruited, developed and believed in a guy that not many others did think he had only like 3 other offers.
Grades as a coach from my limited research.
Developer: A
Recruiter: C+
Offense: B+
Defense: B
In Gaming Coaching: A-
Like many Tiger fans, the entire Will Wade saga can best be summed up as one of if not the most infuriating and disappointing dramas in Tiger sports history. Point blank it was simply a blood lust from a consortium of people that claim they have college basketballs' best interest at heart but in truth are sell out hypocritical cowards. The Dick Vitales and other sports "journalists" showed their true colors and for 3+ years did everything in their power to see a coach get fired and a program gutted. All of them can go to hell, for over two decades people like Jay Bilas, Dick Vitale, Pete Thamel, and Wolken would constantly moan and complain that college athletics was a business and the athletes should get a cut. Then they would say to further prove their point that coaches and administrators salaries were outrageous given the fact that student athletes would make nothing. So Wade pays his players, family members of his players out of his own pocket, yes it was beyond stupid why there are handlers. And then all of a sudden these cockroaches called sports journalists sing a different tune.
Whether it was a big recruit that had LSU in the mix, tourney seeding, or anytime LSU gained any kind of momentum as a program, hit piece after piece. Then on top of that you have one of the most hypocritical and archaic institutions in the NCAA that could not get Wade on the wiretap so they were never going to leave until they had something. Then you had other established college coaches that felt threatened that would hurt young men just out of spite for Wade.
I do not mind admitting it I really enjoyed and got excited about a Wade led Tigers program, call me a Wade "fanboy" or a groupie but he can flat out coach and he injected life into the program after the rotting carcass Johnny Jones left. CWW was stupid, when everyone in the world knew they were out to get him. CWW will be missed TYFYS, but he also seemingly tore down everything he had built.
Head Coach
43 year old Matt McMahon takes over at LSU after 7 very successful and encouraging years at Murray State. Murray State has long been a proving ground for coaches at the lower D-1/mid major level that want to make the jump to a Power 6 job. While the results are mixed to put it best when it comes to what kind of success those coaches had after they left Murray State. CMM is flat out a winner. There are a lot of similarities between Wade and McMahon. Both are extremely detail oriented and play the long game as program builders. Both are college basketball grinders that truly love the day to day job of the team and individual players getting better everyday (Not every coach is like this). Both have their roots in the upper south. An interesting side note was when Trent Johnson was hired, Oliver Prunell Wade's mentor was on the hiring shortlist. And when Wade was hired one of McMahon's bosses Steve Prohm was on the shortlist.
But there are big differences in how they communicate, what they want to see from their teams and more importantly they are much different in demeanor. McMahon comes from the Buzz Peterson coaching tree, where on offense they will generally start with a single high ball screen and then run dribble kill motion action into their sets. CMM does not want a slow paced offense by any means but his teams will be much more methodical than Wades. A little more patience on offense and a much bigger emphasis on finding mismatches and isolating said mismatches in the post. Both are extremely good developers of talent with CMM biggest hit being of course NBA all-star and probably ALL-NBA PG Ja Morant. On defense where as Wade/Bill Armstrong installed an attack almost manic defensive intensity designed to force turnovers but gamble. CMM defenses do have some pressure packages especially their half court trap defense or "23". Very rarely will CMM go "44" or full court man/press. CMM will employ a token press where the point will stifle the other teams primary ball handler from baseline to baseline and then they will run one “run and jump” trap but back to base defense if the opposing teams don’t shite themselves. But his defenses do not gamble and look to force ball handlers to the sideline and then the bigs clean up the action. On ball screen defense CWW employed a lot of "ice" and straight switches, whereas CMM will look to hard hedge a lot, again allowing his bigs to clean up and guards recover. Neither are better than the other just simply their styles. CMM also after the initial high ball screen will generally go straight into wheel actions, meaning hand offs and a typical motion offense, but what CMM is looking for is how do the low guards that are defending the down screens handle it. CMM teams will generally get 4-5 easy layups off these defenders cheating.
Both CWW and CMM teams over space the floor on offense, Wade teams however are using a pace and space strategy to isolate mismatches and then to the chagrin of many Tiger fans it can seem like simply one on one basketball because it is, but analytically there was a lot more that went into it. CMM will space the floor and constantly use motion and dummy action to lull defenses to sleep and then use quick hitters. CMM is not the same recruiter Wade was. He is much more about developing 3-4 year guys. Now this is not to say he will not have high ranked recruits but it is very unlikely we will have consistent Top-10 classes. However he looks for certain guys that fit a certain role and generally his recruits will commit early in the process. Under Wade there was much more an emphasis on positionless basketball players, whereas with CMM there will be more set roles with guys waiting in the wings to take over when players leave and graduate. I went back and watched the 2019 Murray State – Marquette NCAA tournament game. CMM and MSU as a 12 seed upset Marquette but after watching the game from start to finish what he did was a masterful job in coaching adjustments. Murray was only up 6 at the half but wound up winning by 19 extending the lead to as much as 26. In the first half Marquette would double Morant anytime he came off a screen as a ball handler and then rotate over and leave far corner or wing wide open not a bad strategy. What CMM did was use Morant as the screener and put him in multiple stagger screens while flooding the ball side with the other two offensive players. Basically Ja Morant had 16 assists because the second stag would simply roll and the rotation could never get there. That Marquette team was extremely talented with the nations leading scorer Markus Howard, who torched LSU for 39 earlier in the year, and the Hauser brothers. For defensive adjustments in the first half as CMM teams hard hedge screens Howard and Sam Hauser both in the NBA now, were abusing that they are just talented players. In the second half Murray went to a soft hedge show and recover and pre rotated the bigs. It sounds easy but it shows how well coached his team was that they were able to do something they probably had not had to do all year, implement it and find success. He also was using a wave/platoon approach from the start with his subs besides of course leaving Morant in and it paid off as in the first half they had 8 fastbreak points, in the second half 28. I know Ja Morant can probably make any coach look good, but he is the one that recruited, developed and believed in a guy that not many others did think he had only like 3 other offers.
Grades as a coach from my limited research.
Developer: A
Recruiter: C+
Offense: B+
Defense: B
In Gaming Coaching: A-
This post was edited on 4/4 at 10:36 am
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 10:36 am to Coastrashtiger
Assistant Coaches
So far CMM has hired two coaches. One being Casey Long who had been with CMM for 5 years at Murray State and will be the first chair. Long also has deep Louisiana ties as he is from Leesville and his relatives and close friends are some of if not the most important travel basketball/AAU call them coaches or handlers in the state. Oddly enough Long had been on Wade's staff at VCU before going to Murray State. Also CMM was able to land a homerun assistant hire in Cody Toppert. Toppert was most recently on Penny Hardaway staff at Memphis and is known as one of if not the best big man recruiters in America. Toppert also brings a huge benefit with his years if NBA/G-League/Overseas coaching experience. It may not seem like a huge deal but for the vast majority of the non-NBA Power 5 players that will go overseas having somebody like Toppert that actually knows the overseas circuit and can help our guys will pay huge dividends as well.
Facilties
This right now is probably without a shadow of a doubt the biggest glaring problem with the program. I love the PMAC and it has amazing and fond memories, but it is not only up their in age. It is the second oldest arena in the SEC behind Memorial at Vandy and it shows. Just this past year, the roof would leak during any kind of thunderstorm, causing the team to lose valuable practice time during walkthroughs. For about 3 weeks there was no hot water, due to lack of maintenance. And there are no luxury boxes or 21st century premium seating. I personally do not want to see the PMAC torn down or replaced just a massive renovation. I believe the "Deaf Dome" when rocking can match some of the best environments in college basketball. There is also something to be said as Shaq and Charles Barkley talked about basketball alums feel it is home and for the pure basketball talent that has played in the PMAC both men and women as Shaq said when you walk in no matter who you are its impressive. While Auburn and Ole Miss have recently built new smaller nicer arenas where the fans are almost right on top of the court which a lot of fans I see on the Rant want to do as well. My two cents those two programs can build new arenas because the old places they replaced didn't really have a whole lot of tradition to begin with . The practice facility was outdated the day it was built and needs an overhaul. But one benefit LSU does have especially for basketball players is within a 5-10 minute walk the players have extremely nice basketball dorms if they live on campus, the Athlete dining and nutrition building, the practice facility, the PMAC and the Cox student athlete building. It may not seem like a big deal but the players and coaches really do love it very few places in the SEC or major college basketball have this setup for them due to campus size and some basketball arenas not being on campus or far off.
So far CMM has hired two coaches. One being Casey Long who had been with CMM for 5 years at Murray State and will be the first chair. Long also has deep Louisiana ties as he is from Leesville and his relatives and close friends are some of if not the most important travel basketball/AAU call them coaches or handlers in the state. Oddly enough Long had been on Wade's staff at VCU before going to Murray State. Also CMM was able to land a homerun assistant hire in Cody Toppert. Toppert was most recently on Penny Hardaway staff at Memphis and is known as one of if not the best big man recruiters in America. Toppert also brings a huge benefit with his years if NBA/G-League/Overseas coaching experience. It may not seem like a huge deal but for the vast majority of the non-NBA Power 5 players that will go overseas having somebody like Toppert that actually knows the overseas circuit and can help our guys will pay huge dividends as well.
Facilties
This right now is probably without a shadow of a doubt the biggest glaring problem with the program. I love the PMAC and it has amazing and fond memories, but it is not only up their in age. It is the second oldest arena in the SEC behind Memorial at Vandy and it shows. Just this past year, the roof would leak during any kind of thunderstorm, causing the team to lose valuable practice time during walkthroughs. For about 3 weeks there was no hot water, due to lack of maintenance. And there are no luxury boxes or 21st century premium seating. I personally do not want to see the PMAC torn down or replaced just a massive renovation. I believe the "Deaf Dome" when rocking can match some of the best environments in college basketball. There is also something to be said as Shaq and Charles Barkley talked about basketball alums feel it is home and for the pure basketball talent that has played in the PMAC both men and women as Shaq said when you walk in no matter who you are its impressive. While Auburn and Ole Miss have recently built new smaller nicer arenas where the fans are almost right on top of the court which a lot of fans I see on the Rant want to do as well. My two cents those two programs can build new arenas because the old places they replaced didn't really have a whole lot of tradition to begin with . The practice facility was outdated the day it was built and needs an overhaul. But one benefit LSU does have especially for basketball players is within a 5-10 minute walk the players have extremely nice basketball dorms if they live on campus, the Athlete dining and nutrition building, the practice facility, the PMAC and the Cox student athlete building. It may not seem like a big deal but the players and coaches really do love it very few places in the SEC or major college basketball have this setup for them due to campus size and some basketball arenas not being on campus or far off.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 10:37 am to Coastrashtiger
Roster
Yes all 11 scholarship players from last year have left the team. We thank those guys for their service and their work in the classroom as this team had the highest GPA of any team since Wade had been there and they did more service hours than any previous team. You can take that for what its worth, but this is the way of college athletics in the transfer portal. Wade built an extremely close tight knit family type program, a lot of them were hurt but where the transfer portal takes away it also gives.
So far for next year the Tigers currently have.
Trae Hannibal 6'2 (217 lb) CG Transfer from Murray State
9.2 PPG but only 20mpg, as well as 5 rpg and a +AST/TO ratio. Not a very good 3pt shooter
Justice Hill 6'0 (175) G Transfer from Murray State
13.4 PPG 5.2/1.9 AST/TO ratio and not a terrbile 3pt shooter, while he shoots 35% he is extremely streaky had games where he was 4-4 and even 5-5 and then some 0fers.
Kendal Coleman 6'8 (220lb) F Transfer from NW State
15.4 PPG and 10.3 RPG (Leading scorer, rebounder, blocks, and steals on a bad NW state team.
Very solid add and gives again some more Louisiana connections that CMM can build on.
Cornelious Williams 6'10 (195 lbs more around 185) - Prep recruit out of NC. CMM first signee. Williams is a pogo stick jumper but is a project right now, but has great athletic tools and seems to have a good head on his shoulder watched 3 interviews and he even mentioned finding the right fit and somewhere where he can develop for 3-4 years. Also love when recruits mix in taking charges in their highlight mixtape think it says a lot about a guy in the age of hoopMixtapes and TikTok that it mattered to him to have that in their. He is very limited outside of about 8 ft, but the athletic tools are there, probably not a contributor this year.
Now there is rampant speculation that two more players from CMM Murray State team will follow. One being 6'10 leading scorer on Murray State KJ Williams and the other being 6'7 F DJ Burns. Burns is actually from New Orleans and went to Southern in BR before transferring to MSU. A little inside info for the Rant. Both will more than likely be Tigers. Williams is from Cleveland, MS and is cousins with Johnny O'Bryant and actually came to see him play at LSU and so there is a connection. Ole Miss and Georgia will battle hard, but with CMM think we have this one. Burns is set on LSU but his mother is less set. Spoke with DJ's hs coach from Sophie B. Wright and he said DJ would have signed the day after he entered his name in the portal but his mom who is a tough good old school New Orleans woman wants him to finish his school semester first before taking visits or making a decision.
Also LSU has been in contact with 6'5 CG Will Richard of Belmont. He is a proven scorer that put up big numbers against their Power 6 non con games. CMM also coached against as Belmont and MSU are in the same conference. Also his father and CMM played against each other and have known each other for 25+ years.
So unlike Wade in his first year CMM will not have a problem changing the culture because there is nobody left to weed out. I like Coleman and if we land Williams that is a very very nice starting frontcourt. It is too early to tell so leaving this here. But CMM unlike Wade will not recruit a whole lot of 6'7-6'9 tweeners so look for an immediate need being a proven 3pt shooter. Another 2 bigs pref grad transfers or older bigs in age. And I would not be surprised if Shareef O'Neal comes back. They are operating under the assumption that there will some kind of scholarship penalty so they will be leaving one spot open this year.
Yes all 11 scholarship players from last year have left the team. We thank those guys for their service and their work in the classroom as this team had the highest GPA of any team since Wade had been there and they did more service hours than any previous team. You can take that for what its worth, but this is the way of college athletics in the transfer portal. Wade built an extremely close tight knit family type program, a lot of them were hurt but where the transfer portal takes away it also gives.
So far for next year the Tigers currently have.
Trae Hannibal 6'2 (217 lb) CG Transfer from Murray State
9.2 PPG but only 20mpg, as well as 5 rpg and a +AST/TO ratio. Not a very good 3pt shooter
Justice Hill 6'0 (175) G Transfer from Murray State
13.4 PPG 5.2/1.9 AST/TO ratio and not a terrbile 3pt shooter, while he shoots 35% he is extremely streaky had games where he was 4-4 and even 5-5 and then some 0fers.
Kendal Coleman 6'8 (220lb) F Transfer from NW State
15.4 PPG and 10.3 RPG (Leading scorer, rebounder, blocks, and steals on a bad NW state team.
Very solid add and gives again some more Louisiana connections that CMM can build on.
Cornelious Williams 6'10 (195 lbs more around 185) - Prep recruit out of NC. CMM first signee. Williams is a pogo stick jumper but is a project right now, but has great athletic tools and seems to have a good head on his shoulder watched 3 interviews and he even mentioned finding the right fit and somewhere where he can develop for 3-4 years. Also love when recruits mix in taking charges in their highlight mixtape think it says a lot about a guy in the age of hoopMixtapes and TikTok that it mattered to him to have that in their. He is very limited outside of about 8 ft, but the athletic tools are there, probably not a contributor this year.
Now there is rampant speculation that two more players from CMM Murray State team will follow. One being 6'10 leading scorer on Murray State KJ Williams and the other being 6'7 F DJ Burns. Burns is actually from New Orleans and went to Southern in BR before transferring to MSU. A little inside info for the Rant. Both will more than likely be Tigers. Williams is from Cleveland, MS and is cousins with Johnny O'Bryant and actually came to see him play at LSU and so there is a connection. Ole Miss and Georgia will battle hard, but with CMM think we have this one. Burns is set on LSU but his mother is less set. Spoke with DJ's hs coach from Sophie B. Wright and he said DJ would have signed the day after he entered his name in the portal but his mom who is a tough good old school New Orleans woman wants him to finish his school semester first before taking visits or making a decision.
Also LSU has been in contact with 6'5 CG Will Richard of Belmont. He is a proven scorer that put up big numbers against their Power 6 non con games. CMM also coached against as Belmont and MSU are in the same conference. Also his father and CMM played against each other and have known each other for 25+ years.
So unlike Wade in his first year CMM will not have a problem changing the culture because there is nobody left to weed out. I like Coleman and if we land Williams that is a very very nice starting frontcourt. It is too early to tell so leaving this here. But CMM unlike Wade will not recruit a whole lot of 6'7-6'9 tweeners so look for an immediate need being a proven 3pt shooter. Another 2 bigs pref grad transfers or older bigs in age. And I would not be surprised if Shareef O'Neal comes back. They are operating under the assumption that there will some kind of scholarship penalty so they will be leaving one spot open this year.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by fr33manator on 4/4/22 at 10:37 am to Coastrashtiger
Some pictures interspersed with the paragraphs would make this an easier read
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 10:39 am to Coastrashtiger
Recruiting
With the transfer portal being what it is and CMM having still 6 spots to fill he could round this team with the 3 immediate players into a fairly competitive team. (Again the plan is to hold one scholly this year, its smart and I agree with it, heck hold two because the Hs recruit pickings are pretty slim this far late and obviously unless you can get a 2-3 year transfer that’s worth it hold it for next year as this will still be a rebuild/reload in a sense. Going forward there will be some differences from Wade’s recruiting. There will be far less tweeners and guys that fit into the position-less basketball mode with a heavy emphasis on atleast one power big every class. With having Toppert on staff I highly doubt this will be a big issue in finding a very good Top-50-75 big every year that can come in and play meaningful minutes. As others have said Wades connections were primarily the Mid-Atlantic, DMV (With Nickelberry on staff they cleaned up) certain powerhouse feeder prep schools where Wade cultivated those relationships with places like Oak Hill, IMG, Riverside (FL), Roselle Catholic, and the New England prep circuit. They also especially when Greg H. was here and before the transfer portal had a big emphasis on top end JUCO talent Greg and Bill Armstrong quite literally made the best single assistant staff for JUCOs however this was before the portal, less important now. Wade traditionally went big game hunting on the guard side and consistently landed top recruits there and then of course this last class had it all bigs, combos, wings, and bigs taking into account the portal additions they would have had. His true big man recruiting was somewhat lacking outside of Naz a lot of misses on that end, I am taking Days out of this scenario as he was more of a tweener IMO. With CMM there will be a lot more Southeastern recruiting and upper South as in TN and KY. There are a lot of kids in the TN prep and HS level that were just too good to go to Murray that now he can truly recruit to LSU. One thing that is very interesting is that Murray State even going all the way back to the year 2000 has had someone from Louisiana on the roster, and all 7 teams at Murray State under CMM had atleast one with 5/7 having multiple. So he does have his own recruiting ties albeit he never got the top end Top-100 caliber players when they were from Louisiana. But that can actually mean a lot to a high school coach at a place like a Scotlandville, Madison Prep or take your pick, because CMM came in and recruited those lesser known talents not the stars off those teams and coaches like Carlos Sample at Scotlandville and the New Orleans public head coaches will remember when before he was ever coach at LSU he treated those players right. AL, MS, GA, TN and FL at the hs recruiting level will be the primary recruiting grounds.
So far for 2023 a name to keep an eye out for is Ron Holland a Top-10 caliber player out of Texas where Toppert was his lead recruiter at Memphis as well as about 6 Top-100 caliber players from TN that were offered by CMM at Murray but he would have struggled to pull any. CMM is not as good a recruiter as CWW but equally are as disciplined in building and setting up recruiting plans for the present and future. I think there will definitely be an emphasis on Mid-Major portal adds throughout his tenure here, guys that were the best players there but that bigger schools may not take a chance on. Now how he fills out the rest of the staff could obviously be huge as in you get one assistant coach that has major connections to a major metro area and can pull one great talent a year could be something.
Fan Support
This one is the toughest to judge. It still is pretty raw and how quickly everything unfolded. I think combined with potential sanctions and Woodward's propensity to go big game hunting a lot of people felt like this is a bridge coach and sort of a settle option. Well two other SEC schools offered him and he chose us. Two of the best basketball coaches in college basketball asked him to be on their staff in Bobby Cremins and Tony Bennett and he said no out of loyalty. But I think Tiger fans will quickly grow to really enjoy him as a person and how he coaches. His teams will be the most fundamentally sound out of the previous 4 head coaches in basketball. They will be extremely hard and opposite polar opposite from Wades teams play very much under control and limit turnovers as well as be constantly running sets and quick hitters. (Again not saying there was anything wrong with what Wade did, he was a good coach look at the results) but on the board and even in person watching fans would grumble about some things Wade would so stylistically. He is very quick to call timeouts, watched an intveriew and jokingly said he sometimes had to ask assistant Casey Long if a 4-0 run was too soon and "bad shots" will get you yanked from the game with a quickness under CMM. Ja Morant said he really learned a lot and it humbled him to get yanked by CMM.
My Scorecard:
Head Coach: B
Assistant Coaches: A-
Facilities: C-
Roster: C- (Good solid start for only 4 guys but need some pieces that are hard to come by in the transfer protal.)
Fan Support: B
Recruiting base/footprint: C+
Overall: C+ as the current letter grade for our state of affairs.
Probably a one year postseason ban and loss of two scholarships. Out of all of the new SEC basketball hires including Mike White to UGA, think we had the best hire and honestly dont think its very close.
I do not think it is as dire as some say, yes we only have 4 scholarship players, with one being a real project that is probably two years away from real minutes in SEC play. But I am cautiously optimistic about McMahon as a coach think he is so categorically different from Trent Johnson, Johnny Jones, or even Will Wade that if he can jus be competitive year 1 the fans will come around. Im an optimist about fan support I still think as much as it still feels unreal how that all transpired, the good thing is we have a head coach that a bunch of people wanted. And if anything has shown a loyalty to his schools and like Wade if he finds sustained success here he wont leave. Dale Browns first team was nicknamed "The Hustlers" I believe Tiger fans will see how hard CMM and his teams "work" and how fundamentally sound they are and the support will come. Also simply because they play fundamentally sound does not mean it will not be entertaining basketball
P.S. Next week we could be getting a commitment from an All-SEC caliber type scorer, he is in the portal and CMM and staff have been in contact and he will be deciding late next week. This team desperately will need to find that guy.
With the transfer portal being what it is and CMM having still 6 spots to fill he could round this team with the 3 immediate players into a fairly competitive team. (Again the plan is to hold one scholly this year, its smart and I agree with it, heck hold two because the Hs recruit pickings are pretty slim this far late and obviously unless you can get a 2-3 year transfer that’s worth it hold it for next year as this will still be a rebuild/reload in a sense. Going forward there will be some differences from Wade’s recruiting. There will be far less tweeners and guys that fit into the position-less basketball mode with a heavy emphasis on atleast one power big every class. With having Toppert on staff I highly doubt this will be a big issue in finding a very good Top-50-75 big every year that can come in and play meaningful minutes. As others have said Wades connections were primarily the Mid-Atlantic, DMV (With Nickelberry on staff they cleaned up) certain powerhouse feeder prep schools where Wade cultivated those relationships with places like Oak Hill, IMG, Riverside (FL), Roselle Catholic, and the New England prep circuit. They also especially when Greg H. was here and before the transfer portal had a big emphasis on top end JUCO talent Greg and Bill Armstrong quite literally made the best single assistant staff for JUCOs however this was before the portal, less important now. Wade traditionally went big game hunting on the guard side and consistently landed top recruits there and then of course this last class had it all bigs, combos, wings, and bigs taking into account the portal additions they would have had. His true big man recruiting was somewhat lacking outside of Naz a lot of misses on that end, I am taking Days out of this scenario as he was more of a tweener IMO. With CMM there will be a lot more Southeastern recruiting and upper South as in TN and KY. There are a lot of kids in the TN prep and HS level that were just too good to go to Murray that now he can truly recruit to LSU. One thing that is very interesting is that Murray State even going all the way back to the year 2000 has had someone from Louisiana on the roster, and all 7 teams at Murray State under CMM had atleast one with 5/7 having multiple. So he does have his own recruiting ties albeit he never got the top end Top-100 caliber players when they were from Louisiana. But that can actually mean a lot to a high school coach at a place like a Scotlandville, Madison Prep or take your pick, because CMM came in and recruited those lesser known talents not the stars off those teams and coaches like Carlos Sample at Scotlandville and the New Orleans public head coaches will remember when before he was ever coach at LSU he treated those players right. AL, MS, GA, TN and FL at the hs recruiting level will be the primary recruiting grounds.
So far for 2023 a name to keep an eye out for is Ron Holland a Top-10 caliber player out of Texas where Toppert was his lead recruiter at Memphis as well as about 6 Top-100 caliber players from TN that were offered by CMM at Murray but he would have struggled to pull any. CMM is not as good a recruiter as CWW but equally are as disciplined in building and setting up recruiting plans for the present and future. I think there will definitely be an emphasis on Mid-Major portal adds throughout his tenure here, guys that were the best players there but that bigger schools may not take a chance on. Now how he fills out the rest of the staff could obviously be huge as in you get one assistant coach that has major connections to a major metro area and can pull one great talent a year could be something.
Fan Support
This one is the toughest to judge. It still is pretty raw and how quickly everything unfolded. I think combined with potential sanctions and Woodward's propensity to go big game hunting a lot of people felt like this is a bridge coach and sort of a settle option. Well two other SEC schools offered him and he chose us. Two of the best basketball coaches in college basketball asked him to be on their staff in Bobby Cremins and Tony Bennett and he said no out of loyalty. But I think Tiger fans will quickly grow to really enjoy him as a person and how he coaches. His teams will be the most fundamentally sound out of the previous 4 head coaches in basketball. They will be extremely hard and opposite polar opposite from Wades teams play very much under control and limit turnovers as well as be constantly running sets and quick hitters. (Again not saying there was anything wrong with what Wade did, he was a good coach look at the results) but on the board and even in person watching fans would grumble about some things Wade would so stylistically. He is very quick to call timeouts, watched an intveriew and jokingly said he sometimes had to ask assistant Casey Long if a 4-0 run was too soon and "bad shots" will get you yanked from the game with a quickness under CMM. Ja Morant said he really learned a lot and it humbled him to get yanked by CMM.
My Scorecard:
Head Coach: B
Assistant Coaches: A-
Facilities: C-
Roster: C- (Good solid start for only 4 guys but need some pieces that are hard to come by in the transfer protal.)
Fan Support: B
Recruiting base/footprint: C+
Overall: C+ as the current letter grade for our state of affairs.
Probably a one year postseason ban and loss of two scholarships. Out of all of the new SEC basketball hires including Mike White to UGA, think we had the best hire and honestly dont think its very close.
I do not think it is as dire as some say, yes we only have 4 scholarship players, with one being a real project that is probably two years away from real minutes in SEC play. But I am cautiously optimistic about McMahon as a coach think he is so categorically different from Trent Johnson, Johnny Jones, or even Will Wade that if he can jus be competitive year 1 the fans will come around. Im an optimist about fan support I still think as much as it still feels unreal how that all transpired, the good thing is we have a head coach that a bunch of people wanted. And if anything has shown a loyalty to his schools and like Wade if he finds sustained success here he wont leave. Dale Browns first team was nicknamed "The Hustlers" I believe Tiger fans will see how hard CMM and his teams "work" and how fundamentally sound they are and the support will come. Also simply because they play fundamentally sound does not mean it will not be entertaining basketball
P.S. Next week we could be getting a commitment from an All-SEC caliber type scorer, he is in the portal and CMM and staff have been in contact and he will be deciding late next week. This team desperately will need to find that guy.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Tigerboy55 on 4/4/22 at 10:48 am to Coastrashtiger
quote:
P.S. Next week we could be getting a commitment from an All-SEC caliber type scorer, he is in the portal and CMM and staff have been in contact and he will be deciding late next week. This team desperately will need to find that guy.
You’ve Peaked my interest
Any ideas? I would assume Richard maybe
This post was edited on 4/4 at 10:49 am
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Byrdybyrd05 on 4/4/22 at 10:51 am to Coastrashtiger
That is a lot of great information. Thanks!
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by PenguinPubes on 4/4/22 at 10:59 am to Coastrashtiger
That’s one of the longest posts I’ve ever seen
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 11:00 am to Tigerboy55
quote:
You’ve Peaked my interest
Any ideas? I would assume Richard maybe
I know who the player is, leading scorer on his team that fits what CMM is looking for, but LSU is late to the party, this guy is an NBA hopeful so from what I gathered he probably does not want to go to a full on rebuild without seeing the rest of the roster because its not like he is coming from a bad team, circumstances out of his control and its not drugs, grades, or anything nefarious or bad, personal stuff with coaches at his former school. I do not post often law school is kicking my behind, but the text I got with his name said that this player and Toppert knew one another and that Toppert originally recruited him but he went elsewhere. Richard will probably as bad as it sounds would like to have him may have to wait because with being so far behind and only really having 5 spots left for portal adds loading up on guards does not fit CMM scheme at all, think another prep player or hs project will be incoming.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Pnels08 on 4/4/22 at 11:00 am to Coastrashtiger
Matt definitely has potential to be a really good coach for us, and I really like both the hires(I thought he also hired someone from Ole miss as well?) the more I read up on them.
Really curious to see how he puts the team together going forward, I think in general LSU needs to take the Arkansas route and try to find some really good transfers that can be SEC level players and occasionally go all in for a big class. Continuity can become one of LSU's strengths under Mr.McMahon.
Really curious to see how he puts the team together going forward, I think in general LSU needs to take the Arkansas route and try to find some really good transfers that can be SEC level players and occasionally go all in for a big class. Continuity can become one of LSU's strengths under Mr.McMahon.
TD SponsorTD Fan
USA
Member since 2001
USA
Member since 2001
Thank you for supporting our sponsors Posted by Site Sponsor to Everyone
Advertisement
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Hurricane Mike on 4/4/22 at 11:02 am to Coastrashtiger
quote:
(Long Read)
Coach got caught
Coach got fired
Hired new coach
Old coaches players left
I ain't reading the rest of that shite
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 11:06 am to Pnels08
quote:
I think in general LSU needs to take the Arkansas route and try to find some really good transfers that can be SEC level players and occasionally go all in for a big class. Continuity can become one of LSU's strengths under Mr.McMahon.
I agree as well. That was one thing about Wade a lot of roster turnover, some of it by design as he liked having spots available knowing he could find guys like Eason on the portal side or a Waters on the HS side, some not by design a lot of the bigs you saw that would transfer in for one year and then leave were honestly misses. They were probably better suited for Big Ten or Pac 12 basketball and with how Will was almost like a kid in a candy shop with how he went about recruiting 6 or 7 bigs lasted a year never really played some never even seeing the floor and just replaced.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by tom on 4/4/22 at 11:09 am to PenguinPubes
quote:
That’s one of the longest posts I’ve ever seen
Takes a whole lot of words to pump some sunshine on this bad situation.
On the plus side, Woodward likes spending money, so we can almost certainly upgrade the PMAC while nobody is using it for the next 5 seasons.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by GumboPot on 4/4/22 at 11:11 am to Coastrashtiger
I read it all. Thanks for the write up.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Beef Supreme on 4/4/22 at 11:17 am to Coastrashtiger
quote:
Facilties
The thing i find hardest to believe about the facilities is the lack of a dedicated weight room for basketball. When Greg Goldin was on staff as the S&C coach I used to speak to him every now and then. He would complain about that and say we were the only team in the SEC that had to share a weight room. Then he would say "softball has their own weight room. Softball."
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Meauxjeaux on 4/4/22 at 11:18 am to Hurricane Mike
quote:
ain't reading the rest of that shite
Nobody GAF mike
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Coastrashtiger on 4/4/22 at 11:21 am to tom
quote:
Takes a whole lot of words to pump some sunshine on this bad situation.
I really don't think I pumped a whole lot of sunshine on this. All I will say after talking to a coach McMahon took less money to come to LSU over another SEC offer and one other SEC offer was same pay as LSU. This is a guy that has been in his chosen profession for over 20 years and just made a monumental decision. He left a place he had been at for 12 years, where his kids were born and raised, where he was the star coach in a basketball town because Murray State is a basketball school. And even with potential sanctions looming, less money than another SEC job, and at his age he just might have made his one and only job to the Power 6 to get it right. I would have probably given the state of affairs a C- or D+ that ballpark, but look this guy sees something in LSU like Wade did. I not only respect and admire the stones to make that call but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that we are not as bad off as Johnny Jones left the program.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by Manswers on 4/4/22 at 11:26 am to Coastrashtiger
It was a long series of posts but very informative. Thanks for taking the time!
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by GumboPot on 4/4/22 at 11:30 am to Coastrashtiger
quote:
this guy sees something in LSU like Wade did.
There is a core LSU basketball fanbase that wants an elite men's basketball program. I would estimate that number ~8,000. When this program is rolling it's a blast to be around and contagious. I remember camping out for 3 days (with friends rotating shifts) for student tickets when Dale Brown had good teams. It's an entire different feel on campus when the basketball team is winning at a high level. I long for those days.
re: Current State of LSU Basketball (Long Read)Posted by TIGERSby10 on 4/4/22 at 11:31 am to Coastrashtiger
quote:
P.S. Next week we could be getting a commitment from an All-SEC caliber type scorer, he is in the portal and CMM and staff have been in contact and he will be deciding late next week. This team desperately will need to find that guy.
Need to make this guy a damn strong offer.
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News