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re: Brennan vs Johnson Part II: The Tape

Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:06 pm to
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59287 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:06 pm to
I’m a Max Johnson fan, I started affectionately calling him “Max Jets” as soon as he got his chance but I’m an LSU fan even more and the fact is Brennan was better last year.
Posted by Sponge
Member since Nov 2018
4183 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

Spring game stats

Dee Anderson had more receiving yards than Chase, Jefferson, & Marshal combined in the 2019 Spring game.

I think what MB & MJ did during the the 2020 season against actual competition holds more water than a coordinated scrimmage.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
132958 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

I dont give a shite who starts this year, Peetz will play the guy that runs his offense better

Im saying Brennan was clearly a better QB last year




I'm leaning toward Brennan starting albeit Max should. Max needs to be ready. If Brennan starts I seriously doubt he last 4 games. His playing style leads to a higher risk of injury. He just doesn't deflect energy very well while being tackled.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59287 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:08 pm to
When you see fans start to go full narrative in order to push their favorite it means they have no objective argument. They’ll open that door then dismiss any opposing narrative that contradicts theirs.
Posted by Brettesaurus Rex
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2009
38261 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:09 pm to
This is exactly why I have no idea why everyone’s crowning Johnson. I felt this way since those games played and this just reaffirmed it.
Posted by Hold That Tiger 10
Member since Oct 2013
23647 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:10 pm to
quote:


Or you can look at the most important stats, Ws and third down conversions.


Wins? So every win and loss is 100% on the QB? Are we just going to ignore the historically bad defense we had? That doesn't fit your narrative though, so we will leave that out.

And i guess we are also going to ignore the fact that one of Johnson's wins (which apparently he gets full credit for) only happened because some dumb arse threw a shoe across a field. That doesn't fit into the narrative either though.

So let's talk 3rd down conversions. I would bet every dime I had that our 3rd down conversion percentage is better last year with Brady still coaching. Ensminger was not the answer at LSU for OC. If Petz is as advertised, I expect those numbers to improve no matter who is under center.
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
284985 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

Ok, Johnson was 55% last year


Ok?

A true freshmen who had the 2 top pass catchers leave the team.

I’m not looking at a body of work from him. Just flashes
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59287 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:11 pm to
You must not know Max Johnson’s 3rd down conversion rate because it was in the teens. And I’ve seen this over and over again where you guys will use 3rd ruining plays that didn’t convert against Brennan which is also false.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59287 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:14 pm to
“A true freshmen who had the 2 top pass catchers leave the team.

I’m not looking at a body of work from him. Just flashes”


Translation: facts don’t matter and you’ll move the goalpost anytime in order to say that Max Johnson can do no wrong.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
132958 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

You must not know Max Johnson’s 3rd down conversion rate because it was in the teens. And I’ve seen this over and over again where you guys will use 3rd ruining plays that didn’t convert against Brennan which is also false.



But Max's third down conversion rate is higher. Furthermore he keeps plays alive with his feet.

My main concern with the QB position is not the depth, it's the ceiling. I believe Nuss has the highest ceiling followed by Max then Brennan.
Posted by Barney Rubble
Hattiesburg MS
Member since Oct 2010
825 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

Or you can look at the most important stats, Ws and third down conversions.


Sounds like you think Tim Tebow should still be a starting QB in the NFL...
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
32095 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

Johnson showed potential and promise after Finley looked mediocre. It was refreshing and a little exciting when the season was essentially over and nobody cared.

Brennan looked good on paper each week but the defense sucked in those games and we lost some which people remember. He looked nervous and lacked emotion which isn’t ideal for your QB. But his numbers were better than any QB through his first few games as a starter.

Either will do fine but for multiple reasons I start Brennan week one.


Brennan looked like a true freshman making his first start vs. MSU. He was indecisive, mechanically slow, often locked on to his first read, and was late delivering the ball even when guys were open. Basically all of his TD passes we great plays be the WR making up for poor and/or late throws.

Vs. Mizzou he looked like a different guy. Decisive and confident. He made some tremendous deep throws that (at least in the small sample size) Johnson probably can't make.

Johnson WAS a true freshman making his first start vs. Florida (by far the best opponent either of the two faced). His first throw looked like a disaster (a looping floater out of the endzone). But then he settled down and made this throw...probably the best of the season by any QB



He had the confidene and comfort to roll out...feel the defense...pull up...and then float a beautiful touch pass over a defender who looked to be in perfect position

There were also multiple times Johnson was able to quickly process things and work through progressions for big plays in the UF and OM games. Something not always easy to do for a true Freshman and arguably better than what Brennan did. To me, the most impressive thing about Johnson is that he never really looked rattled as a true freshman. That doesn't mean he was always great (he wasn't). But the moment never looked too big for him.

IMO, when everything is "clean" Brennan (with his arm strength) can make some great throws. But Johnson showed more of an ability to make plays when maybe things didn't go right.

The brilliance of Burrow was not his ability to make the great play when everything worked like it was supposed to. It was his ability to make the great play when it didn't.

NEITHER guy is Burrow. But I think Johnson's ability gives your more margin of error when things aren't "perfect".
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
284985 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:18 pm to
Huh

I don’t even think Johnson played all that great last year, but I see a lot I like from him.

I also don’t grade freshmen the same way I would a guy who has 4 years in the program. What else do I need to see from Brennan at this point? I’m not sure.
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
104119 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

But then he settled down and made this throw...probably the best of the season by any QB

Dude that is a gif of a WR completely torching a DB and getting over a yard of seperation

Good throw, but lets not oversell it
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
284985 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

I mean your IQ is even lower than I thought


Btw pride, I don’t forget your absolute clown posts regarding 2018 joe burrow. When we were all trying to tell you he was a dude, you kept calling him Danny Etling. Hell of a take
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59287 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:24 pm to
Johnson will never be as old as Brennan so I dunno why you think that’s relevant to what they put on the field? There’s a reason the Johnson pimps make all the excuses and the Brennan argument is totally performance based.
This post was edited on 7/14/21 at 4:25 pm
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
75468 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:27 pm to
quote:

Johnson will never be as old as Brennan so I dunno why you think that’s relevant to what they put on the field?


Johnson being good for a freshmen makes me excited for the future

But you’re right, who is our QB this years needs to be about who’s the better QB.

Brennen may only be better because he is years older, but that still means he’s better.
Posted by BayouCowboy
Member since Dec 2012
15717 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:28 pm to
quote:

Brennan looked like a true freshman making his first start vs. MSU. He was indecisive, mechanically slow, often locked on to his first read, and was late delivering the ball even when guys were open. Basically all of his TD passes we great plays be the WR making up for poor and/or late throws.

I would caveat that with what I recall Ensminger saying which was that they trimmed down the playbook and simplified plays for the true FR. Probably gave them more simplified reads.

In my OP the article mentions that LSU had a more complex system:
quote:


There are enough ways (heavy RPO use, heavy play action use, standard down passing) to simplify a QBs process nowadays that, unless processing is really sketchy, the things I listed are what differentiate you at the college level. You can go look at North Carolina’s offense, for example. Sam Howell doesn’t have to do a ton of thinking or processing, he does do a lot of big boy throwing. LSU’s offense requires a bit more, it is straight dropback heavy, the way they run play-fakes doesn’t really influence defenders as much as I’d like, and it is heavy on quick passing.

Hopefully Peetz can tailor the scheme to exploit defenses without making the QB overthink.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59287 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:30 pm to
Right, it’s no slight against Johnson, he should have a bright future and maybe he’s improved enough to take the job but if we’re going by what we KNOW so far Brennan’s been the better of the 2.
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
284985 posts
Posted on 7/14/21 at 4:31 pm to
quote:

Brennan argument is totally performance based.


So what do you think of 5-27 on 3rd down in the 2 losses against terrible defenses?
This post was edited on 7/14/21 at 4:31 pm
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