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Posted on 6/6/12 at 2:49 pm to bojabu
quote:
conclusions. Les Miles has been coaching in the SEC for 7 years, Satan, now a staggering 10. This directly affects SEC Championships, SEC West Titles, and National Championships. 7/10 isn't exactly apples to apples.
Let's try some simple math:
Saban is averaging one NC every 3.3 years. Miles one NC every seven.
Saban is averaging one SECC every 3.3 years. Miles one SECC every 3.5 years.
Saban is averaging one undefeated regular season every five years. Miles one undefeated regular season every seven years.
Saban is averaging one overall undefeated season every ten years. Miles doesn't have one, so technically he is averaging one every infinity years (7/0).
So even accounting for the length of their tenures, Saban's winning. Sorry man.
This post was edited on 6/6/12 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 6/6/12 at 2:50 pm to The312
It doesn't work that way
Posted on 6/6/12 at 2:52 pm to The312
quote:
Let's try some simple math: Saban is averaging one NC every 3.3 years. Miles one NC every seven. Saban is averaging one SECC every 3.3 years. Miles one SECC every 3.5 years. Saban is averaging one undefeated regular season every five years. Miles one undefeated regular season every seven years. Saban is averaging one overall undefeated season every ten years. Miles doesn't have one, so technically he is averaging one every infinity years (7/0). So even accounting for the length of their tenures, Saban's winning. Sorry man.
I guess Les is better than Joe Pa by these methods.
Oh and Larry Coker is now a legend.
This post was edited on 6/6/12 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:11 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
quote:
At the very least, you do - I believe - recognize that Saban is the better coach?
I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.
Perhaps I mistook the nature of our disagreement. You've now reasonably agreed that Saban is a better coach than Miles. As has Choctaw. And essentially everyone else in this thread.
Saban is better than Miles. That's settled. No disagreements there.
Now, apparently, we're just arguing about HOW much better Saban is than Miles. Whether Saban is just a "small notch" better or significantly, wildly better. I fully agree that intelligent minds can differ on the MAGNITUDE of Saban's superiority (whereas no intelligent minds could really differ on the the fact of that superiority - whatever its degree - at this point). I can see how one could craft an argument that Saban is only slightly better than Miles, and I can similarly see an argument that Saban is "on another level" than Miles. Personally, I fall somewhere between the two extremes.
This post was edited on 6/6/12 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:16 pm to The312
quote:Way to go out on a limb, bro.
Personally, I fall somewhere between the two extremes.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:22 pm to LSU92
You guys would probably live a little longer if you would simply accept that Saban is a better coach by just about every measure, and also recognize that the coach you do have is probably the only other coach in the game that can consistently field a team able to match Alabama on a consistent basis. Both fan bases go into every game EXPECTING to win, except for one game, and we all know what game that is.
I believe Saban is willing to work just a little harder than Miles every day, which is why he reels in those extra 1-2 recruits every year, and why his game plans are a little more polished. His reputation is earned, and he's got a hard nosed, no nonsense coaching presence that media types love. Miles on the other hand has a persona that media types, and much of your fan base, loves to mock, until Miles shuts them up by winning, at which point they retreat to the sidelines waiting for the next opportunity to pile on. It's probably a little disingenuous to complain about Miles not getting enough respect when debates like this one routinely occur within your own fan base. Appreciate what you have. You could have done much, much worse in the aftermath of Saban.
I believe Saban is willing to work just a little harder than Miles every day, which is why he reels in those extra 1-2 recruits every year, and why his game plans are a little more polished. His reputation is earned, and he's got a hard nosed, no nonsense coaching presence that media types love. Miles on the other hand has a persona that media types, and much of your fan base, loves to mock, until Miles shuts them up by winning, at which point they retreat to the sidelines waiting for the next opportunity to pile on. It's probably a little disingenuous to complain about Miles not getting enough respect when debates like this one routinely occur within your own fan base. Appreciate what you have. You could have done much, much worse in the aftermath of Saban.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:22 pm to The312
quote:
Now, apparently, we're just arguing about HOW much better Saban is than Miles.
alot of the original argument had to do with with why the media (and some LSU fans apparently) still don't consider Miles an elite coach when everything points to the contrary
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:37 pm to The312
quote:
So even accounting for the length of their tenures, Saban's winning. Sorry man.
And yet, he's .500 against Les. You'd think a coach of such stature would clobber a guy who only goes undefeated every 7 years.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:38 pm to Mxylplyx
Probably this...coming from a Gump too...
Just when I'd consider Miles a great coach, he was that one game a year that just leaves me absolutely baffled with TERRIBLE game management decisions.
He doesn't help his perception when he has those games where it looks like he couldn't manage a little league team. Then he goes out and embarrasses Bama at their house. Miles is a complete enigma and that's why I can't never consider him a elite gameday coach. Not until he gets rid of those brain farts.
I understand coaches make bad decisions sometimes...but the way Miles does it at times, just puts him on his own level of bad...
Like I said, when Miles is on, he's really good. When Miles does something stupid, it's really really bad...
Just when I'd consider Miles a great coach, he was that one game a year that just leaves me absolutely baffled with TERRIBLE game management decisions.
He doesn't help his perception when he has those games where it looks like he couldn't manage a little league team. Then he goes out and embarrasses Bama at their house. Miles is a complete enigma and that's why I can't never consider him a elite gameday coach. Not until he gets rid of those brain farts.
I understand coaches make bad decisions sometimes...but the way Miles does it at times, just puts him on his own level of bad...
Like I said, when Miles is on, he's really good. When Miles does something stupid, it's really really bad...
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:40 pm to deuce985
quote:
I understand coaches make bad decisions sometimes...but the way Miles does it at times, just puts him on his own level of bad...
Like I said, when Miles is on, he's really good. When Miles does something stupid, it's really really bad...
i asked before and you never answered. could you list all the mistakes that he's had way too may of?
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:41 pm to deuce985
quote:
1/9 set him back 2 years imo (national media perception)
And rewind to the Tenn and Ole Miss games. The media and even us as fans will always have that imbedded in our heads. Throw in the whole JL and JJ crap for 4 years, did not help as well. Win it all this year and all is forgotten.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:44 pm to The312
quote:
Now, apparently, we're just arguing about HOW much better Saban is than Miles.
Bingo. Saban is not the Savior that the media and others here make him out to be. I actually had the pleasure of loosely working with both men. There isn't much overall that separates them.
My point is this: They are both GREAT coaches in their own right. One is much different than the other in terms of approach, planning, etc. With Saban, I always felt like he "got it" after a loss. Kind of like, "daddy saw the problems and will fix it". Miles is different, and it took me some time to adjust to that. Miles doesn't like that approach. I honestly think Miles revels in the fact that the media, and in some cases his opponents, think he's an unpredictable idiot. That plays in his favor more than anyone knows. Miles also isn't going to let you in on anything, whether it is gameplan, injuries, etc.
quote:
I can see how one could craft an argument that Saban is only slightly better than Miles,
This is where I fall.
My prime arguement is the Mulligan. Give Miles a Mulligan and you would probably see similar results. Right now, the result of the unprecedented mulligan on Jan 9th is what Miles haters, Saban lovers, and the media are running with. I don't blame them. I would as well. Afterall, the media was mostly responsible for what happened, and they got what they wanted in the end. Good for them. But this doesn't make Miles a bad coach. As mentioned in this thread, lots of "elite" coaches have lost rematches, warranted or not.
Also, I've never seen Miles lose to teams he shouldn't have lost to like the UABs or ULMs of the world. Saban has. An elite coach should NEVER lose to these teams. I mean that. EVER.
Like Miles, Saban has also blown a big lead at home.
I could go on and on. There isn't much difference.
I also believe it is harder to sustain a program than it is to rebuild it. JMO. Miles is doing great in this area as well.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:46 pm to Mxylplyx
[quote]You guys would probably live a little longer if you would simply accept that Saban is a better coach by just about every measure, and also recognize that the coach you do have is probably the only other coach in the game that can consistently field a team able to match Alabama on a consistent basis.[/quote]
"Match" Bama on a consistent basis? Really? Just "match"? LOL
Delusional, at best. See my summary of the Bama games since 2008, with arguably two of Miles' worst teams.
We don't just "match" up with you, gump. We also beat you. The main difference is that, when we beat you, somehow it never counts.
"Match" Bama on a consistent basis? Really? Just "match"? LOL
Delusional, at best. See my summary of the Bama games since 2008, with arguably two of Miles' worst teams.
We don't just "match" up with you, gump. We also beat you. The main difference is that, when we beat you, somehow it never counts.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 3:56 pm to Mxylplyx
quote:
It's probably a little disingenuous to complain about Miles not getting enough respect when debates like this one routinely occur within your own fan base.
This.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 4:00 pm to bojabu
I would say Saban is exactly 2.02% worse than Les Miles, judging by the only indisputable mathematical fact anyone's bothered to bring up in this incessant Saban blowJ of a topic. Coaches can most similiarly be compared when the samples are taken from the same conference, in this case, we can 1up that with same division. The fact that Saban has won more championships is great for him, and I give him a lot of credit for doing so, especially at Lsu. But since they didn't start coaching in the same conference at the exact same time, I say again, the only way to truly compare is by winning percent. Who knows how many games CLM will or won't win in the next 3 years, or how many championships of varying quality he will get? 0% of us. But what I know with 100% of my brain is that history shows Les Miles will win more games than Nick Saban. Albeit by 2%, but when talking about whether or not someone is a good coach or not, I'd say beating the best coach (who's dick must taste like filet mignon, judging by the gravy train here lined up) in the history of Earth, in a tell-all stat like win percentage makes CLM a damn strong football coach.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 4:15 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:quote:
You guys would probably live a little longer if you would simply accept that Saban is a better coach by just about every measure, and also recognize that the coach you do have is probably the only other coach in the game that can consistently field a team able to match Alabama on a consistent basis.
"Match" Bama on a consistent basis? Really? Just "match"? LOL
Delusional, at best. See my summary of the Bama games since 2008, with arguably two of Miles' worst teams.
We don't just "match" up with you, gump. We also beat you. The main difference is that, when we beat you, somehow it never counts.
You misconstrue my meaning. By "match" I mean these two teams are usually capable of beating one another on any given day. 1/9 aside, these two teams have taken every game down to the wire. THAT is matched.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 4:31 pm to Mxylplyx
quote:
You guys would probably live a little longer if you would simply accept that Saban is a better coach by just about every measure, and also recognize that the coach you do have is probably the only other coach in the game that can consistently field a team able to match Alabama on a consistent basis. Both fan bases go into every game EXPECTING to win, except for one game, and we all know what game that is. I believe Saban is willing to work just a little harder than Miles every day, which is why he reels in those extra 1-2 recruits every year, and why his game plans are a little more polished. His reputation is earned, and he's got a hard nosed, no nonsense coaching presence that media types love. Miles on the other hand has a persona that media types, and much of your fan base, loves to mock, until Miles shuts them up by winning, at which point they retreat to the sidelines waiting for the next opportunity to pile on. It's probably a little disingenuous to complain about Miles not getting enough respect when debates like this one routinely occur within your own fan base. Appreciate what you have. You could have done much, much worse in the aftermath of Saban
Sorry, but I don't discuss LSU football with alabama fans. Let me be clear, I don't like you or your school. If I did, I would be on the sec rant.
That being said, I am one of the only people that does not measure Miles on the Saban scale because it does not matter.
Posted on 6/6/12 at 7:42 pm to LSU92
quote:This.
Sorry, but I don't discuss LSU football with alabama fans. Let me be clear, I don't like you or your school. If I did, I would be on the sec rant.
That being said, I am one of the only people that does not measure Miles on the Saban scale because it does not matter.
Alabama was proven to be completely mediocre without Saban - hence 4 coaches in 5 years including one of their own (I may miscount, but frick if Alabama wasn't hiring/firing coaches left and right).
That said, I will never discuss real football with an Alabama fan - they are utterly clueless.
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