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re: All of these basketball experts need to give it a break
Posted on 12/16/18 at 3:34 pm to TigerJeff
Posted on 12/16/18 at 3:34 pm to TigerJeff
I would imagine they have some feelings on stuff up on their social media and what gets said there, but that's different from coming here to seek it out. Even when I did have social media, I never contacted players.
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Posted on 12/16/18 at 3:52 pm to TigerJeff
quote:
Yes. I'm sure Naz Reid tosses and turns at night b/c of something Sid from Chilly Gentilly wrote on an anonymous fan forum.
who said that Jeff? you are quite dramatic for a grown man
Posted on 12/17/18 at 12:55 pm to StatMaster
quote:Being good enough to be in the tournament by the end of the year is much more important than making it this year.
I think we will be good enough to be in the tournament by the end of the year, but I don’t think we will get enough wins along the way. I see LSU ending up slightly above .500 in conference and that not quite being good enough to get into the tourney.
The main reason why actually making the tournament would be helpful is that it would make it easier for some fans to actually see the improvement. That and gaining experience. If anything, a deep run into the tourney might hurt more than help by setting unrealistic expectations for next year. Sure, I'll take it if it happens, but a cohesive team identity, an upward trend in our play, and a solid recruiting class are the most important goals for this year IMO.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 1:16 pm to irnfan
quote:nonsense.
Being good enough to be in the tournament by the end of the year is much more important than making it this year.
The main reason why actually making the tournament would be helpful is that it would make it easier for some fans to actually see the improvement. That and gaining experience. If anything, a deep run into the tourney might hurt more than help by setting unrealistic expectations for next year. Sure, I'll take it if it happens, but a cohesive team identity, an upward trend in our play, and a solid recruiting class are the most important goals for this year IMO.
We have 4 freshmen that were in the top 53 recruits nationally last year. Add to that Mays and Water, and also transfer Bigby-Williams.
We've got PLENTY of talent. If we don't make the Dance this year, it's a massive underachievement.
And you can't put lipstick on that pig by saying it's a stepping stone for next year.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 1:51 pm to atltiger6487
You either didn't read or didn't understand the OP.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 2:45 pm to irnfan
quote:
Being good enough to be in the tournament by the end of the year is much more important than making it this year.
The main reason why actually making the tournament would be helpful is that it would make it easier for some fans to actually see the improvement. That and gaining experience. If anything, a deep run into the tourney might hurt more than help by setting unrealistic expectations for next year. Sure, I'll take it if it happens, but a cohesive team identity, an upward trend in our play, and a solid recruiting class are the most important goals for this year IMO.
That's ridiculous. You can continue to build a program AND make it to the NCAAT this season. They aren't mutually exclusive. Wade expedited the rebuilding process by bringing in highly rated players quickly who are NBA prospects. That's completely different than what Rick Barnes did at Tennessee. His recruiting classes were largely unheralded and feature virtually no NBA prospects (coming out of HS). He built UT by having those kinds of players gain experience as they continued in college. But that's because they weren't NBA prospects who were legitimate threats to leave early.
The make up of this LSU roster isn't one signed to implement a gradual "build" strategy towards a NCAAT team. This team is already "built" relative to that goal. Expectations for next year were almost assuredly going to be lower than this season simply due to the anticipated personnel losses. LSU is very likey going to lose 4 players from the current 9 man rotation (Reid, Waters, Bigby-Williams, Edwards). Thus, those four prominent players in your rotation "gaining experience" this season does absolutely nothing for next season since they won't be here to utilize that experience.
That's not to say LSU can't and won't be a NCAAT team next year, but they have the talent now to at least make the tournament this season. You don't sign guys like Smart, Reid, Williams, etc. to slowly build the program because those types of guys don't have aspirations of sticking around to build the program. When you sign loaded recruiting classes, you sign them to win NOW
Posted on 12/17/18 at 2:58 pm to Alt26
quote:correct. Wade brought in 4 recruits in the top 53 nationally, and we already had Waters and Mays, and also brought in transfer Bigby-Williams.
That's ridiculous. You can continue to build a program AND make it to the NCAAT this season. They aren't mutually exclusive. Wade expedited the rebuilding process by bringing in highly rated players quickly who are NBA prospects.
Wade fans are just moving the goalposts (sorry, football metaphor) to now say we're just building for next year. That's nonsense, of course. These same posters were predicting a Sweet 16 before the season started.
There's more than enough talent on this team to make the Dance. Anything less will be a big disappointment.
Posted on 12/17/18 at 3:31 pm to atltiger6487
quote:
Wade fans are just moving the goalposts (sorry, football metaphor) to now say we're just building for next year. That's nonsense, of course. These same posters were predicting a Sweet 16 before the season started.
To be fair , I’ve only seen that one poster suggesting that we don’t need to make the tournament for the season to be a success.
I’m a huge Wade fan and I completely agree that this is a tournament roster right now. Even considering the learning curve for the freshman, there is no excuse not to be dancing.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 12:51 am to atltiger6487
quote:It is not moving the goalposts. It is knowing history and how long it usually takes to turn around a basketball program from where we were into a sustainable power.
Wade fans are just moving the goalposts (sorry, football metaphor) to now say we're just building for next year. That's nonsense, of course. These same posters were predicting a Sweet 16 before the season started.
There's more than enough talent on this team to make the Dance. Anything less will be a big disappointment.
The goal remains the same - making the tournament every year and competing for championships. If we make the tournament this year, great. I just disagree with your timeline.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 1:00 am to Alt26
quote:This is where it becomes obvious that an intelligent discussion has become impossible. You should at least read what the other person wrote and not make stupid shite up.
That's ridiculous. You can continue to build a program AND make it to the NCAAT this season. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:15 am to irnfan
All I want to see is progress and a path for success for the program. So far no real complaints, everyone is learning. 
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:21 am to irnfan
Gotta disagree because both sides of this argument have valid positions. Your comparison to those 3 coaches doesn’t apply because the landscape and the way teams are built now days is completely different. Back to the point, yes ppl need to have a little patience because it’s mostly a new team with a lot of freshman and first year players. Even though there are plenty of teams who use freshman every season most of those programs already have a culture established and have more experience with the freshman installation and process. On the other hand we’ve seen a lot of the same problems that plagued us last season and Wade assured us that this group of players would eliminate some of those problems. I’m mostly referring to the struggles with rebounding and Wades promise that these frontline players would vastly improve our inside toughness and rebounding which hasn’t happened. Fans have a right to be upset because we’ve blown leads and given games away. Losing these resume games also shrinks our path to get into the NCAA tourney. The SEC will not get 7-8 teams in the way we did last year. LSU really needs to finish in the top 4/5 in conference to get in this season now that we’ve blown pretty much all our resume matchups. At the same time we have a long ways to go and a very favorable SEC schedule, if we can get some momentum all our goals are within reach.
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 3:27 am
Posted on 12/18/18 at 8:53 am to mmcgrath
I hope Waters keeps his arse glued to the bench.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:21 am to irnfan
quote:basketball isn't like football. Basketball programs can be turned around overnight. There's only 5 guys on the floor and 13 scholarships.
It is not moving the goalposts. It is knowing history and how long it usually takes to turn around a basketball program from where we were into a sustainable power.
One player can make a huge difference. And when a coach brings in 4 freshmen in the top 53 nationally, we're there. It's time to produce.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:31 am to Old Money
quote:to some extent I agree, but with his outstanding recruiting, Wade has set the bar high for himself. He brought in 4 recruits in the top 60 nationally (I think these numbers are correct, but slightly differ depending on the rating source).
All I want to see is progress and a path for success for the program. So far no real complaints, everyone is learning
With those guys, plus Waters, Mays, and other solid players, we need to be producing at a higher level.
Saying that we only want to see progress and a path for success is underselling where we are now. We have the talent to be a very good team, and although we're certainly pretty good, we're not reaching that next level. Yes, maybe we'll get there later in the season, but we're already 1/3 of the way through, and have lost a couple OOC games that we should've won, and have seen some issues both offensively and defensively, and that's troubling.
But I'm still optimistic, just a bit disappointed thus far.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:12 am to irnfan
quote:
This is where it becomes obvious that an intelligent discussion has become impossible. You should at least read what the other person wrote and not make stupid shite up.
Your comment is:
quote:
Being good enough to be in the tournament by the end of the year is much more important than making it this year.
To which I responded that is a ridiculous statement considering the fact that being good at the end of this year could be wholly irrelevant since many of the important pieces of this year's team won't be here next year.
This season is not simply the next step up the ladder to hopefully bigger things next year. It's a level jump year because you signed a top 5 recruiting class to go along with a returning preseason All Conf. PG. Basically the EXACT same scenario Missouri went through last season.
In 16-17 Mizzou was every bit as bad as LSU. In fact, their program had been far worse than LSU for the previous 4-5 years. Yet, a new coach (Martin) sings a loaded recruiting class (#4 in the country) to go along with an impact grad transfer. That class wasn't signed with the expectation to work towards the NCAAT in a few years. It was signed with expectations of making a huge level jump THAT season...which they did, going from 2-16 and dead last in SEC play to the NCAAT in one season. They would have been even better had their star recruit (Porter) not been lost for essentially the entire season in game 1.
Mizzou is now taking an expected step back (like LSU would likely do next season). However, the signing class got the results it was expected to get, a NCAAT appearance.
The overall point is that missing the NCAAT, THIS YEAR would be a big disappointment because "being good enough to be in the tournament by the end of the year" (but not making the tournament) isn't going carry over to next year because of the expected personnel losses.
When you sign a loaded recruiting class you better get immediate results out of it because many of those guys ain't sticking around long enough to build a program. Thus, it's ENTIRELY reasonable to have expectations that THIS year's team reach the NCAAT while also understanding that Wade is still trying to build the program into one which has perennial success.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 11:45 am to Alt26
Yeah, well in no way did I imply that the 2 were mutually exclusive. It is hard enough convincing the immediate gratification children on this board to take a more rational long term view of things without having to deny things I did not say.
It takes more than 5 star talent to build a team, especially in basketball. Look no further than the 2004 olympic basketball team. Sometimes it comes together quickly, sometimes it doesn't.
Would I be disappointed if we do not make the tournament this year? Of course. I want to compete for championships starting yesterday. Would I consider this year a failure if we don't? Not if we show significant progress.
I am fine that we disagree, but nobody wants to waste their time denying things they didn't say.
It takes more than 5 star talent to build a team, especially in basketball. Look no further than the 2004 olympic basketball team. Sometimes it comes together quickly, sometimes it doesn't.
Would I be disappointed if we do not make the tournament this year? Of course. I want to compete for championships starting yesterday. Would I consider this year a failure if we don't? Not if we show significant progress.
I am fine that we disagree, but nobody wants to waste their time denying things they didn't say.
Posted on 12/19/18 at 6:30 am to KingofthePoint
quote:
To be fair , I’ve only seen that one poster suggesting that we don’t need to make the tournament for the season to be a success.
I agree, I think folks tend to exaggerate to fit their own points and arguments. This team should make the tournament this year, WW expects to make the tournament And I expect to make the tournament.
Posted on 12/19/18 at 9:28 am to go ta hell ole miss
“9-3. That’s amazing”
What’s truly amazing is that 9-3 at LSU is now seen as amazing. 3rd in the West is acceptable and 10th in the SEC in O is a OC doing a “great” job.
But.....no one is lowering expectations.
Wade took over a program that was below 500 overall and below 500 in the SEC for the last nine years. I believe the year before he took over we won 2 SEC games
The difference between the programs Wade took over and the program Coach O took over is like night to day.
So yes, you should relax and give the man a reasonable chance. He hasn’t been at LSU since 2015 as Coach O has been.
What’s truly amazing is that 9-3 at LSU is now seen as amazing. 3rd in the West is acceptable and 10th in the SEC in O is a OC doing a “great” job.
But.....no one is lowering expectations.
Wade took over a program that was below 500 overall and below 500 in the SEC for the last nine years. I believe the year before he took over we won 2 SEC games
The difference between the programs Wade took over and the program Coach O took over is like night to day.
So yes, you should relax and give the man a reasonable chance. He hasn’t been at LSU since 2015 as Coach O has been.
This post was edited on 12/19/18 at 9:45 am
Posted on 12/19/18 at 2:47 pm to atltiger6487
quote:Agree and I am sure the players and coaches feel this way also.
There's more than enough talent on this team to make the Dance. Anything less will be a big disappointment.
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