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Posted on 2/11/21 at 7:18 pm to CajunTiger_225
quote:
A prominent 247 poster has said LSU knows exactly how Bama is doing it but refuses to operate that way so it's a matter of ethics and probably not so much about rules and compliance.
If that’s the case, then LSU needs to reach out to other programs affected by this that say they want higher standards, like Clemson, and lobby the NCAA hard to remove every loophole. Lock everything down. No more than 25 signees and no more than 2 holdover scholarships from the previous season. No more than 2 Gray or Blueshirts per season. Any walk-in has to be in the program for 2 full years to get a scholarship. No more medical scholarships. Take away all of Saban’s tricks. To kneecap him, the rest of the P5 will gladly sign on.
Then address the portal. No inter conference waiver and for every 2 you lose to the portal or grad transfer, you can take back 1 from the portal, grad transfer or JUCO to replace them.
This would bring some balance to the system.
Posted on 2/11/21 at 7:19 pm to Wrinkles
The term "process" as used in this instance originated with Bama/Saban. For any sane individual to honestly claim they don't do it is, well, insane. I personally have no issue with it and no doubt agree we'd do it if we could. That program is running at a historic level for a reason.
Posted on 2/11/21 at 7:23 pm to Nissanmaxima
Dude just wants to smoke a cigar after the game
Posted on 2/11/21 at 7:56 pm to pelicanpride
quote:
I’m beginning to come around to the idea of fewer scholarships as well. The game has become boring with the lack of competitiveness. It’s bad for the sport.
The best solution is 75 total and 25 hard cap, IMO. If you offer a player a scholarship and they commit to your team, that player can't grey-shirt after the fact. Only players that haven't committed can receive the grey-shirt and they don't count against your recruiting ranking. Grey-shirting should be required to be an up-front offer, not something you wait on to manipulate the recruiting rankings. Now, if you don't fill the 25 players allotment in a given year, then your grey-shirt player has to receive the scholarship.
This post was edited on 2/11/21 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 2/11/21 at 9:09 pm to misey94
quote:My personal opinion is that this isn't the best approach. The ethics involved aren't that bad IMHO... IF used in what I would call a "moderated approach" and not used to just filter out players that aren't going to make the 2-deep to keep the cycle going. I guess one way of putting it is the ethics violations don't really cross into amoral grounds. There should be a do-not-cross line between unethical and amoral for sure. But short of that line- should be open to discussion on a case by case basis.
A prominent 247 poster has said LSU knows exactly how Bama is doing it but refuses to operate that way so it's a matter of ethics and probably not so much about rules and compliance.
Say for example a player truly didn't recover fully from an injury and is never going to be a starter, stayed eligible, and put out before the injury. He should not be subject to medical schollie remediation. That should even go for #3's. But take any of those three away, especially the putting out part, should be fair game.
quote:I also see that slightly differently. While I don't really disagree, I'd like the loopholes to stay AND be used by us so I can't really take that position.
If that’s the case, then LSU needs to reach out to other programs affected by this that say they want higher standards, like Clemson, and lobby the NCAA hard to remove every loophole. Lock everything down. No more than 25 signees and no more than 2 holdov
However, I do think instead of eliminating loopholes and locking everything down (because some of that would be almost as unfair to other players in reality), since LSU think the way such loopholes are being used by teams like Bama is unethical we should damn well be publicizing it. There are outlets out there that provide an avenue that don't suck Saban's dick that would love to pursue that.
The problem is, glass houses and all. We obviously aren't squeaky clean and if it resulted in an all out media war between SEC schools, the SEC would step in to shut down the initiating school... and that would be us. Not the Gumps.
On the other hand, rehashed stories (very little new information) regarding LSU with misleading headlines seem to come out at the worst possible times regarding recruiting as it stands now. We're already on the receiving end of such. We should fight fire with fire as far as I'm concerned. Playing nice, the high road, and being "more ethical" only invites more of that in my experience.
Posted on 2/11/21 at 9:11 pm to Will2nd
quote:
If you offer a player a scholarship and they commit to your team, that player can't grey-shirt after the fact. Only players that haven't committed can receive the grey-shirt and they don't count against your recruiting ranking
but don't grey shirts have to count against your next years class? Early enrollees can be back counted, if there is room in the prior years class, but grey shirts are forward counted. So with all the past years grey shirts they should have even less than 25 available schollys this year.
Posted on 2/11/21 at 9:23 pm to boxcar willie
quote:exactly. There's a future cost to greyshirts. There may be some they are using, but that's not how they are signing over 25 for years in a row.
but don't grey shirts have to count against your next years class? Early enrollees can be back counted, if there is room in the prior years class, but grey shirts are forward counted. So with all the past years grey shirts they should have even less than 25 available schollys this year.
The answer lies in the medical scholarship recovery, PWO's, and there seems to be a third loophole regarding transfers/opt outs/early NFL entrees to make the numbers work.
Unless... they are finding a way to do blueshirts. If they are, then they are in violation. Period. The conditions for a blueshirt are very specific and hard to meet. If you even contact them, send a brochure, or even give them a demon's whisper hint nudge wink of an offer they don't qualify for blueshirts.
Personally, I think the bulk is in the medical remediation with a touch of PWOs. But that means they are doing alot of medical scholarship recovery to the tune of 3 or 4 every year (yes, that's a bunch). That's 3 or 4 kids who stuck it out and got the carpet pulled out from under them. That even surpasses what most NFL franchises do.
Posted on 2/11/21 at 11:32 pm to Nissanmaxima
They are gonna get To'o To'o too?
Posted on 2/12/21 at 6:15 am to Nissanmaxima
Just like when the Bear used to stockpile kids just so no one else could have them, the Midget continues this practice Today, and between the Gumps owning the SEC Office and his bff in charge of the NCAA, not a peep is made. All the while they stay busy narcing on other schools.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 6:55 am to Icansee4miles
So sounds like Toto isn’t going to Kansas anymore?
Posted on 2/12/21 at 6:56 am to Penrod
I don’t believe this necessarily true. There have been several years under where we’ve had to let elite talent/recruits walk away both do to the numbers. So names that come to mind include Mario Goodrich and Devin Bush. Personally, I think Coach Raymond can get almost any DB he wants if he’s allowed.
LSU’s recruitment communication and strategy is more tempered and calculated due to the 25 scholarship limit. I say this because you always hear CEO talking about the numbers; something you never really hear from Nick Saban. LSU, like most universities, has a tradition of rewarding walk-ons full athletic scholarships.
I believe Alabama has stopped this practice and started handing walk-ons academic scholarships with football scholarship perks (swag, dining, stipend, housing, etc). I hate to say it but rewarding walk-ons full athletic scholarships doesn’t move the needle in terms of performance on the field.
LSU’s recruitment communication and strategy is more tempered and calculated due to the 25 scholarship limit. I say this because you always hear CEO talking about the numbers; something you never really hear from Nick Saban. LSU, like most universities, has a tradition of rewarding walk-ons full athletic scholarships.
I believe Alabama has stopped this practice and started handing walk-ons academic scholarships with football scholarship perks (swag, dining, stipend, housing, etc). I hate to say it but rewarding walk-ons full athletic scholarships doesn’t move the needle in terms of performance on the field.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 8:15 am to Tiger30
Saban is the Honey Badger of Coaches; He Takes What He Wants. He also will take more than he needs to keep his opponents from having them.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 8:30 am to Weaver
quote:
How do you not understand it? They have 5 stars every year ride the pine. This isn't anything new. As long as Saban is there get used to it. They will never have a down year and if they do, they may lose 2 games tops.
I really don't know why you were downvoted so much for speaking the truth?!? I guess people don't want to accept that it is FACT!
Posted on 2/12/21 at 9:57 am to I20goon
quote:
Unless... they are finding a way to do blueshirts. If they are, then they are in violation. Period. The conditions for a blueshirt are very specific and hard to meet. If you even contact them, send a brochure, or even give them a demon's whisper hint nudge wink of an offer they don't qualify for blueshirts.
thats what I thought as well. Blue shirts really aren't a thing anymore.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 10:02 am to I20goon
quote:
However, I do think instead of eliminating loopholes and locking everything down (because some of that would be almost as unfair to other players in reality), since LSU think the way such loopholes are being used by teams like Bama is unethical we should damn well be publicizing it. There are outlets out there that provide an avenue that don't suck Saban's dick that would love to pursue that. The problem is, glass houses and all. We obviously aren't squeaky clean and if it resulted in an all out media war between SEC schools, the SEC would step in to shut down the initiating school... and that would be us. Not the Gumps.
That’s why I think lobbying for rules changes is the better path. It takes away some of Saban’s advantages in a way that also affects you and every other P5 school equally, but doesn’t really hurt you as much. If you aren’t already using the tactics you are attacking, then you are less open to retaliation in the court of public opinion. It’s easy to take the high ground and hold it using this approach. Any mud slinging by a Bama and others would just look like an attempt at deflection from the issue.
It’s a position of convenience, like Apple championing data privacy. Using personal data isn’t core to their business, but it is for some of their competitors. So now they use that position to attack their competition and hurt them using a positive campaign for something with some public appeal. It applies to them equally, but doesn’t hurt them since data harvesting isn’t core to their business the way it does Amazon, Google or Facebook.
Like you said, if you just go on a media assault over these tactics without a goal for changing them, you open yourself up for counterattack on anything negative that can be thrown back at you. When you lead negative, negative retaliation will be expected. As for the SEC, going to the NCAA directly leaves them with little recourse for retaliation. And what can they say? Recruiting reform wouldn’t be a good thing?
As for the real ethics of it all, I’m not as concerned about that. Most of these kids are getting paid or given all kinds of gifts and advantages. It’s all part of the game. I just see this as a way to attack Bama’s recruiting advantages. If LSU can’t make the same use of them that Bama can (and let’s face it, no one can right now), then they should do anything in their power to neutralize them. Championing reform lets you do that from a positive angle, rather than making it look like a direct attack on your target.
This post was edited on 2/12/21 at 10:08 am
Posted on 2/12/21 at 11:23 am to Old Money
quote:
They find these grey areas that no one else does that are within the rules.
Eventually, it all ends up looking like it was within the rules. That is not how they make it happen , though.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 5:12 pm to Nissanmaxima
I’m not mad Saban is finding loopholes, I’m just disappointed our staff can’t figure out a way to do it too.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 5:18 pm to LSU Patrick
It was within the rules.
The trick is having kids voluntarily giving their scholarship back. Then you need players like paul tyson and will reichard to play along and not visit campus.
Alsoz they have to pay tuition for 1 semester.
The trick is having kids voluntarily giving their scholarship back. Then you need players like paul tyson and will reichard to play along and not visit campus.
Alsoz they have to pay tuition for 1 semester.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 6:51 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Alsoz they have to pay tuition for 1 semester.
lulz
They ain’t paying for shite.
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