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Message
Help with assessing electrician's estimate after lightning strike
Posted on 8/21/23 at 11:45 am
Posted on 8/21/23 at 11:45 am
A tree in my front yard was struck by lightning a few weeks ago. I didn't think much of it until a few devices had issues. I posted about them here already. A modem's ethernet port was fried and my oven's circuit board stopped working.
You all said to watch out for possible issues occurring over time, and you were right. Luckily I already contacted my insurance company to file a claim. Their instructions were to get an electrician to perform an assessment and report damages and repairs to the adjuster. We had someone scheduled for this upcoming Thursday.
Last night, a GFCI tripped in the kitchen. This knocked out half of the kitchen including the refrigerator. I reset the GFCI and it immediately tripped again. I called an electrical company's 24/7 line and they scheduled someone first thing this morning.
Here are the results:
- There's evidence of heat damage on the outside box. Considering the other issues in the house, he recommends a $900 lightning inspection to determine if there is lightning damage in the house.
- The GFCI that tripped was malfunctioning. He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee.
- In his inspection and safety check, he identified a host of issues with the house's wiring. For one, half of the house is wired into an old fuse box with Edison fuses. He said the box and fuses are original to the home (late 1950s) and he said they're way past their life expectancy. I asked if it was a fire hazard, and he said all he can ever really say about fire risks is that any time you're dealing with electricity, there's always a fire risk.
- The other half of the house is wired into a newer circuit breaker that was installed when an addition was added to the home around 10 years ago. There is no rhyme or reason to what outlets, lights, and appliances are wired where. Nothing is labelled and many things are combined that make no sense. For example, the oven in the kitchen, the TV in the living room, and the ceiling fan in my bedroom are all on the same fuse.
- I should note here that the previous owner did a lot of work in this house himself. Almost every service technician we've used since buying the house has given us a "WTF" reaction when they look at what they're getting into.
- Many outlets are using three pronged faces but aren't actually grounded.
- He said a refrigerator should always be on its own circuit. It's connected to three outlets in the kitchen and an outlet in the living room.
- He's sending the full estimate and details later, but he said he found extensive issues. To do everything is $30,000.
Any advice here? I feel like I just got kicked in the nuts.
You all said to watch out for possible issues occurring over time, and you were right. Luckily I already contacted my insurance company to file a claim. Their instructions were to get an electrician to perform an assessment and report damages and repairs to the adjuster. We had someone scheduled for this upcoming Thursday.
Last night, a GFCI tripped in the kitchen. This knocked out half of the kitchen including the refrigerator. I reset the GFCI and it immediately tripped again. I called an electrical company's 24/7 line and they scheduled someone first thing this morning.
Here are the results:
- There's evidence of heat damage on the outside box. Considering the other issues in the house, he recommends a $900 lightning inspection to determine if there is lightning damage in the house.
- The GFCI that tripped was malfunctioning. He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee.
- In his inspection and safety check, he identified a host of issues with the house's wiring. For one, half of the house is wired into an old fuse box with Edison fuses. He said the box and fuses are original to the home (late 1950s) and he said they're way past their life expectancy. I asked if it was a fire hazard, and he said all he can ever really say about fire risks is that any time you're dealing with electricity, there's always a fire risk.
- The other half of the house is wired into a newer circuit breaker that was installed when an addition was added to the home around 10 years ago. There is no rhyme or reason to what outlets, lights, and appliances are wired where. Nothing is labelled and many things are combined that make no sense. For example, the oven in the kitchen, the TV in the living room, and the ceiling fan in my bedroom are all on the same fuse.
- I should note here that the previous owner did a lot of work in this house himself. Almost every service technician we've used since buying the house has given us a "WTF" reaction when they look at what they're getting into.
- Many outlets are using three pronged faces but aren't actually grounded.
- He said a refrigerator should always be on its own circuit. It's connected to three outlets in the kitchen and an outlet in the living room.
- He's sending the full estimate and details later, but he said he found extensive issues. To do everything is $30,000.
Any advice here? I feel like I just got kicked in the nuts.
This post was edited on 8/21/23 at 11:48 am
13
Posted on 8/21/23 at 12:09 pm to StringedInstruments
First action should be to get other estimates immediately
Posted on 8/21/23 at 12:22 pm to mtcheral
Agreed.
Here's the language of the estimate I just received:
I'm assuming the lightning damage part isn't going to apply to the backstab part, right? Insurance isn't going to cover any issues not connected to the lightning strike.
(Also, I have to consider my anxiety-stricken wife here. If she sees "backstab devices are one of the leading causes of housefires," we're either putting up a for sale sign or writing the $30k check.
Here's the language of the estimate I just received:
quote:
Main service outside appears to have taken extreme heat damage due to lightning strike in the vicinity. Bus bar in main disconnect is showing extreme/dangerous signs of heat damage caused by a very aggressive surge.
2 to sub panels inside the hole are outdated, one being original to the home and is a fuse box. All outlets inside the home are backstabbed rather, which is the incorrect way to install outlets and switches, the wire have been wrapped around the provided screws. Backstab devices are one of the leading causes of housefires. Home also has outdated smoke detection system And outdated grounding system.
I'm assuming the lightning damage part isn't going to apply to the backstab part, right? Insurance isn't going to cover any issues not connected to the lightning strike.
(Also, I have to consider my anxiety-stricken wife here. If she sees "backstab devices are one of the leading causes of housefires," we're either putting up a for sale sign or writing the $30k check.
This post was edited on 8/21/23 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 8/21/23 at 12:32 pm to StringedInstruments
Most of the time you don’t want to use any electrician that’s has a 24/7 number. If he charged you $400 for a gfci that’s a terrible rate, shouldn’t have been more than $250 most likely. Many would have done that for $200, $150-175 labor plus the part.
Always get multiple quotes, always. Then come back.
Call some local guys, local bigger shops are fine. But you want someone like Baton Rouge electric not someone like Mister Sparky
Always get multiple quotes, always. Then come back.
Call some local guys, local bigger shops are fine. But you want someone like Baton Rouge electric not someone like Mister Sparky
Posted on 8/21/23 at 12:46 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
- The GFCI that tripped was malfunctioning. He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee.
This is an outrageous rate to replace a GFCI. Get multiple quotes as others have stated.
I'm not sure how to interpret the total quote $$, since most of the issues he found are unrelated to the lightning strike. I'd ask them to separate out what was damaged by the lightning strike to get an idea of what your insurance should cover vs. what you'd have to fix out of pocket.
Last but not least, it sounds like the wiring in this house is absolutely fricked.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 12:52 pm to Sir Saint
Electricians are nuts. I had one quote me $6,700 to replace all of my outlets and light switches. That is not why I originally called him.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 2:48 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
The GFCI that tripped was malfunctioning. He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee.
If I charged one of my customers that much to change a GFCI, I would expect a good kick in the nuts. And I would deserve it.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 2:59 pm to LuckySo-n-So
So the breakdown of the invoice was $225 for full house safety inspection and $188 for GFCI replacement. Is that a better price?
Posted on 8/21/23 at 3:04 pm to StringedInstruments
Insurance owes you for damage caused by the storm, you need to check to see if your policy covers code upgrades, if not, you will probably be on the hook for anything not directly damaged by the lightning
Posted on 8/21/23 at 3:07 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:Holy shitballs!!! That's a $20 receptacle + .5 hours @ $85/hr maybe + 20% overhead = $75 repair. $100 at the most and that feels dirty.
- The GFCI that tripped was malfunctioning. He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 8:19 pm to StringedInstruments
You can fix all of your outlets yourself with a screwdriver and small pliers. $0.
My neighbors (old neighborhood) paid between $3000 and $5000 to have their old fused service panel replaced with 200 amp panels. That sounds like most of what you need done. The two sub panels might be a different animal.
Add another grand and get a whole home surge protector added before the panel.
My neighbors (old neighborhood) paid between $3000 and $5000 to have their old fused service panel replaced with 200 amp panels. That sounds like most of what you need done. The two sub panels might be a different animal.
Add another grand and get a whole home surge protector added before the panel.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 8:44 pm to StringedInstruments
I have had a lightning strike as noted in your previous thread. I also have since moved into a house that the electrical is completely fricked.
From a lightning strike perspective, everyone is correct. Have them separate what was damaged by the surge vs what was existing. That will at least separate the 2 problems.
As for the bad electrical, welcome to my life. I had A/C units with no disconnect, my well water pump had 120 to the hot wire and 220 to the neutral, they used extension cords instead of Romex in some places, overloaded the main panel and burnt out the neutral bus, double tapped the main lugs, etc etc.
I have had an electrician come out and clean up a ton of it, add a sub panel, correct the main panel, I have been doing everything downstream of the panel myself. That has cost me about 4k so far.
I had to do the sub panel because in order to swap the main panel Alabama power has to shut off power. Once that happens, they won't turn in back on until the house is inspected and brought up to code. I was quoted 14k to do that or hot swap the main, it was cheaper to run a sub panel.
From a lightning strike perspective, everyone is correct. Have them separate what was damaged by the surge vs what was existing. That will at least separate the 2 problems.
As for the bad electrical, welcome to my life. I had A/C units with no disconnect, my well water pump had 120 to the hot wire and 220 to the neutral, they used extension cords instead of Romex in some places, overloaded the main panel and burnt out the neutral bus, double tapped the main lugs, etc etc.
I have had an electrician come out and clean up a ton of it, add a sub panel, correct the main panel, I have been doing everything downstream of the panel myself. That has cost me about 4k so far.
I had to do the sub panel because in order to swap the main panel Alabama power has to shut off power. Once that happens, they won't turn in back on until the house is inspected and brought up to code. I was quoted 14k to do that or hot swap the main, it was cheaper to run a sub panel.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 9:11 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
So the breakdown of the invoice was $225 for full house safety inspection and $188 for GFCI replacement. Is that a better price?
---
Yeah, that's quite a bit different from your original post.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:13 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
The GFCI that tripped was malfunctioning. He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee
This could have been done for like $50. You honestly could do it yourself. It’s not that hard.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:21 pm to StringedInstruments
Sounds like a price for a complete re wire which you probably need. $15 a sq ft was what I got quoted by three companies when I did my house….had knob and tube and some really shoddy “new” wiring done previously. My neighbor across the street just had his renovation done by AccuTemp and he said it was $19k, but he had all the walls already open so it was basically new construction installation. Good luck, I’ll never buy a house with electrical problems again that’s for sure.
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:26 pm to StringedInstruments
As the others say, have him separate out what was lightning related (which is what you asked him for in the first place) and file the claim on your insurance. As for the rest of that shite….the house has been fine for over 70 years, so I wouldn’t change any of it.
Posted on 8/22/23 at 2:37 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Last night, a GFCI tripped in the kitchen. This knocked out half of the kitchen including the refrigerator.
I was going to point out this was odd since the refrigerator should be on its own 20A circuit and not running off one of the (minimum) 2 small appliance circuits and doesn't need to be on a GFCI unless it is close to the sink (6' IIRC) but then I read the rest of the post and realized it is an old house with subsequent wiring work.
quote:
All outlets inside the home are backstabbed rather, which is the incorrect way to install outlets and switches, the wire have been wrapped around the provided screws. Backstab devices are one of the leading causes of housefires.
Backstabbing is code compliant but many electricians will not do it and a lot of DIYers like myself won't either. This is something you could change out over time yourself with a little education. There are some receptacles and switches that use Wago style connectors (not sure if it is licensed Wago or not) built in which would make it a lot easier for a DIYer, Leviton is one that makes them but they aren't cheap but if they made you more confident with the job they are cheaper than an electrician to do all the work. You still see backstabbing today but usually by subs that are working on a tight budget and is the reason you will see a lot of budget builds run 14/2 in all the circuits not required to have 12/2 because you can not backstab 12/2. The material cost for running 12/2 (20A) circuits is fairly nominal at retail the wire might run $200 more for a 2000sq ft house and the receptacles would be the same. A dual 15A receptacle can be used on a 20A circuit because it is considered 2 devices and outside of a larger BTU window unit I have never seen a consumer product used INSIDE the house with a 20A (6-20P) plug on it mainly because requiring a receptacle for it would greatly reduce the number of people that could use it. So the reason for 15A circuits is mainly the labor and the main labor savings is in back-sticking.
In the end, the insurance will cover the lightning-related issues which I would get repaired ASAP. The other wiring issues are almost certainly going to be out of pocket and have a whole different cost-benefit analysis to go with it.
I should mentioned that the biggest issue with backstabbing is the wire coming loose this can be exacerbated when the device is removed and replaced multiple times which is generally rare. The other issue is when the insulation is removed from too much of the wire so the insulation doesn't seat right against the backstick hole which can lead to arcing especially to the uninsulated ground which could be a rats nest if done by a DIYer especially in a box with multiganged switches.
Posted on 8/22/23 at 6:54 am to BoogaBear
quote:
they used extension cords instead of Romex in some places
Posted on 8/22/23 at 10:53 am to Spankum
quote:
As for the rest of that shite….the house has been fine for over 70 years, so I wouldn’t change any of it.
I'm not trying to sale this one way or another, but everything will be fine, until its ashes.
If the house is that old, some of the wiring may be aluminum which adds another complication to the process.
Given the arse backwards way the house is wired, I think I'd prioritize upgrading and doing everything the right way. It's going to be a mess and probably expensive. But it's needed to make things better and not a hassle down the road.
Posted on 8/22/23 at 1:14 pm to ItzMe1972
quote:
Yeah, that's quite a bit different from your original post.
quote:
He replaced it for $400, which included a $225 inspection fee.
Except it’s not.
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