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The Perfect Human Diet

Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:57 pm
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/4/18 at 9:57 pm
Anyone seen this documentary on Amazon Prime? Basically a low carb documentary about one man's search on paleolithic diets.

Not bad so far. They even visit the site of one of my favorite series of studies, and the lab that performed the tests, of paleo humans and neanderthals' bone isotopes.

Currently watching this doctor go through the store with the host Poor doctor doesn't realize that apples and oranges in the store aren't the same as those 200 years ago. But it isn't terrible.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 9:10 am
Posted by Captain Crackysack
Member since Oct 2017
2231 posts
Posted on 1/4/18 at 10:05 pm to
So is Paleo just a less extreme keto diet?
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
37974 posts
Posted on 1/4/18 at 10:27 pm to
No it's more extreme with whole 30 being the most extreme. Essentially you are cutting out processed food including all carbs except honey, fruit, sweet potatoes and veggies.

Essentially if you can't go kill it, pick it or grow it exactly as you are about to cook it, don't eat it.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
72070 posts
Posted on 1/4/18 at 10:44 pm to
That's always been my approach.

Grow it or kill it or don't eat/drink it
Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22542 posts
Posted on 1/4/18 at 11:14 pm to
Technically you could grow any food as the chemicals are derived from plants.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
37974 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 6:31 am to
You can grow all the ingredients for dorritos chips? Can you grow pasta? Again it has to stay in the natural state.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87381 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 7:08 am to
Where do you stand on grains? Rice, particularly.
Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22542 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 7:42 am to
Sure. Make corn tortillas and throw some spices on it. People have grown the ingredients for pasta forever. Why does it have to be in the natural state? If you combine any two ingredients, it's no longer in it's natural state.
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 7:55 am to
Isotopic evidence for the diets of European Neanderthals and early modern humans



They were able to tell the type of proteins, plant-based or animal based, by taking the isotopes from the bones of an array of animals. Forming an idea of what they ate; herbivores, carnivores, high level carnivores.

They could find cows bones showing a plant-based diet. Found wolves below that of neanderthals, then modern humans even above that of neanderthals. They found that while humans ranked higher than neanderthals, humans also "consumed significant quantities of aquatic foods, both from freshwater and marine sources" as well. Which is interesting because DHA is very high in aquatic wildlife. The neanderthals did not consume aquatic wildlife in sufficient quantities to show up as a staple throughout the year.

quote:

Isotopic analysis provides information about the sources of dietary protein over a number of years, even though it does not measure the caloric contributions of different foods. As the method only measures protein intake, many low-protein foods that may have been important to the diet (i.e., high caloric foods like honey, underground storage organs, and essential mineral and vitamin rich plant foods) are simply invisible to this method. There are high-protein plant foods in Europe that Neanderthals and early modern humans could have consumed, such as hazelnuts [commonly consumed in the Mesolithic (49" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer"> that would have been visible in the isotopic analyses, but they are simply not seen. Another important consideration is that this method tracks the bulk protein consumption over a number of years, and provides an average and proportional measure of the protein sources. Therefore, the occasional consumption of resources like fish or marine mammals by Neanderthals (i.e., once a month, 1 month a year) would be largely invisible to this method. Indeed, it is evident that Neanderthals sometimes consumed aquatic resources (50), although the isotope evidence shows that it was not likely to have been an important part of their diet across Neanderthal populations.


quote:

Stable isotope analysis is therefore a powerful method for reconstructing aspects of past diets, and it has been especially useful in determining the protein sources in Neanderthal and early modern human diets in Europe. There are now enough isotopic data to see patterns in the data, and they show that the Neanderthals and early modern humans had similar dietary adaptations, obtaining most of their dietary protein from animals, although some of the early modern humans obtained significant amounts of their protein from aquatic, and not just terrestrial, sources.


I'll try and find the others I had found.
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:27 am to
FOCUS: Gough’s Cave and Sun Hole Cave Human Stable Isotope Values Indicate a High Animal Protein Diet in the British Upper Palaeolithic



quote:

Measurements of carbon (13C) and nitrogen (15N) stable isotope values in bone collagen can tell us about the long-term (c.the last 10 years of life) protein sources in human and faunal samples


quote:

By comparing the human and faunal values, it actually seems that the humans were consuming mainly animal protein, as their average 15N of c. 6·8‰ is much greater than the associated herbivore 15Nvalues. The human values are higher than the single carnivore value, from an arctic fox, which indicates that humans were consuming animal protein at a higher trophic level than the fox.


quote:

If the humans hunted and consumed mainly horse, then their 15N values should be c. 3–5‰ (Equus 15N value of 0·7‰+enrichment of 2–4‰). Instead, their 15N values make more sense if they lived mostly off Bos and Cervus elaphus (Bos and Cervus values of c. 3‰+enrichment of 2–4‰=the observed values c. 6–7‰). It is also possible that other species, including Rangifer tarandus, were consumed by these individuals. Rangifer tarandus has 15N values similar to Cervus elaphus (Richards, 1998), and has more positive 13C values, which may explain the observed slight enrichment in the human 13C values. A number of artefacts made from Rangifer tarandus have been found at Gough’s, but there is no other evidence that this species was being exploited for food. The extensive cut marks on the bone could indicate that these people were not the hunters at Gough’s, but perhaps the hunted. The above conclusions about the diet of these individuals would not change if this were the case, but instead of telling us about the diets of the supposed hunters at Gough’s, we could be looking at the diet of another human group living in southern Britain at this time.


quote:

Conclusions

This limited stable isotope study proposes that Late Upper Palaeolithic hunters in southern Britain had a hunting economy and that their protein was mainly derived from the woodland species Bos and Cervus elaphus, while Equus was only consumed periodically. If the human bones measured here are from the hunters at Gough’s and Sun Hole, one could then envisage Gough’s and Sun Hole Caves as being specialist sites for hunting horse at certain times of theyear, but the animal meat was only a supplement to a year-round diet based mainly on hunted woodland mammals.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
37974 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:33 am to
tortillas are made with flour that is processed. If you want to go through the process of growing wheat and making your own flour, then sure have at it.

its the taking and processing that makes it no longer a perfect food. Also flour has been around since 6000 BC but it was not eaten very much at all, no grains really were.

All the evidence points to humans living a spartan like existence for thousands of years. They would hunt,in the meantime eat berries or other friuts/veggies that grew naturally in the wild, once they killed they feasted usually at night on a meal that would be 3 days worth of calories as they never knew when they would kill again.


now to make it clear, not saying everyone should eat like this, nor is it needed for weight loss. But a perfect human diet would be very close to whole 30 combined with warrior diet style IF.
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:36 am to
Stable isotope analysis of Late Upper Palaeolithic human and faunal remains from Grotta del Romito (Cosenza), Italy

quote:

Stable isotope analysis of carbon (d13C), nitrogen (d15N) and sulphur (d34S) were carried out on one of the largest assemblages of Late Upper Palaeolithic human remains in Southern Europe, at Grotta del Romito (Cosenza), Italy. The burials were stratigraphically dated from ca. 18,000 to 13,000 cal BP, which was confirmed by a series of new AMS dates made directly on the bone collagen. Dietary reconstruction from carbon and nitrogen stable isotopes revealed that eight of the nine individuals analysed, dating to the Final Epigravettian, had very consistent diets, rich in terrestrial animal protein, regardless of their age or sex


quote:

Nitrogen isotopic values (d15N) increase by 3e5& with increasing trophic level (Hedges and Reynard, 2007) and therefore are useful for distinguishing animal-rich diets from plant-rich diets as well as theconsumption of high trophic level marine and freshwater fish. Nitrogen in collagen is directly obtained from dietary protein and therefore will only reflect dietary protein sources consumed. Carbon in bone collagen is also preferentially obtained from dietary protein, but can be derived from other dietary carbon sources (carbohydrate and lipid), depending on dietary protein levels


quote:

The majority of human nitrogen isotope values are enriched compared to the animals by 3e5& (Fig. 4) indicating that they derived the majority of their dietary protein from the large herbivores found in the cave. The exception is Romito 9, where the measured d15N value is >5& higher than even the maximum herbivore value suggesting that this individual regularly consumed protein from an additional dietary source that was of higher trophic level, such as freshwater or possibly even marine fish. Similarly enriched d15N values, indicative of significant aquatic (marine or freshwater) protein (interpreted to be >20%), have been observed for mid-Upper Palaeolithic humans from Europe (Richards et al., 2001a; Pettitt et al., 2003; Fig. 5).


quote:

4. Conclusions In this study, we have substantially increased the stable isotope data set of Late Upper Palaeolithic human remains from the Mediterranean region. Most of the individuals had a very similar terrestrial diet. The exception is Romito 9, dating to several millennia earlier, who had a more mixed diet, comprised of freshwater and/or marine fish in addition to terrestrial animals. Whether this is typical of a more general dietary change during the Late Upper Palaeolithic cannot be ascertained by considering the dietary histories of just nine individuals. But this should be a priority for further studies, as such a change may be related to a reduction in the territories that people habitually used due to increased productivity and in turn related to climate amelioration.
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:39 am to
Stable Isotope Evidence for Early Modern Human Diet in Southeastern Europe: Pestera cu Oase, Pestera Muierii and Pestera Cioclovina Uscata

quote:

Conclusion

The addition of carbon and nitrogen stable isotopic data for four Early Upper Paleolithicmodern humans from Romania adds significantly to our dietary record for the European transitional period from Middle Paleolithic to Middle Upper Paleolithic and from Neandertals to early modern humans. A significant increase in d 15 N values among the more recent humans implies greater carnivory and/or a broader proteinaceous dietary spectrum for them, a trend apparently present into the Middle Upper Paleolithic. However, currentarcheological analyses suggest little dietary change from the Middle Paleolithic through the Early Upper Paleolithic, turning this isotopic insight into hypotheses to be, hopefully, tested against additional isotopic and faunal data.


This one is free for reading.
Posted by Captain Ron
Location: Ted's
Member since Dec 2012
4340 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Essentially if you can't go kill it, pick it or grow it exactly as you are about to cook it, don't eat it.


Which is the perfect diet: Meats, fruits and veggies, but sometimes a busy schedule wrecks the best intentions.

..and I'll never give up milk.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 8:41 am
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87381 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Where do you stand on grains? Rice, particularly.


Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:54 am to
Stable Isotope Evidence for European Upper Paleolithic Human Diets

quote:

Abstract

This paper presents the published and unpublished stable carbon and nitrogen isotope values for 36 European Upper Paleolithic humans from 20 sites. The isotope data were measured to determine the sources of dietary protein in Upper Paleolithic diets; the evidence indicates that animal, not plant, protein was the dominant protein source for all of the humans measured. Interestingly, the isotope evidence shows that aquatic (marine and freshwater) foods are important in the diets of a number of individuals throughout this period.


quote:

The nitrogen isotope data (Fig. 20.1b) from this time period is particularly interesting. Most of the humans have values that are best interpreted as deriving from the consumption of animal protein, namely terrestrial herbivores, as the main source of dietary protein This is based on the comparison between the d15N values of these humans, and the d15N values of herbivores and carnivores from a number of Eurasian sites dating to this time period.


quote:

A number of individuals have higher d15N values than would be expected from a diet in which the protein derived purely from terrestrial herbivores. Of particular interest are the two earliest individuals from the sites of Oase and Kostenki 1, which both have very high d15N values. These elevated values are indicative of the consumption of large amounts (proportionally) of freshwater foods, likely fish, which is a reasonable assumption as both of these sites are close to freshwater sources.


quote:

Summary and Conclusions This paper presented published and unpublished bone collagen carbon and nitrogen stable isotope data for European Upper Paleolithic humans. The isotope data shows that animal protein, mainly from terrestrial herbivores, was the dominant source of dietary protein for most humans in this period. However, in some circumstances, aquatic protein was an important source of dietary protein. This was the case for the earliest modern humans in Europe, where freshwater resources were important, in the Gravettian period when marine foods contributed up to 20% of dietary protein at two coastal sites, and in the Late Upper Paleolithic, where there is evidence for higher amounts of marine protein consumption at a coastal site. Clearly, though, animal protein was the main source of dietary protein for all humans, and must have been obtained through active hunting (and fishing). Plant foods were not an important part of diet, at least in terms of dietary protein, which means that gathering protein-rich plants like hazelnuts was unlikely to have been an important subsistence activity in the Upper Paleolithic, at least for the humans measured here.


Sorry for the walls of text, but I find these isotope studies very intriguing.
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 8:56 am to
quote:

now to make it clear, not saying everyone should eat like this, nor is it needed for weight loss. But a perfect human diet would be very close to whole 30 combined with warrior diet style IF.



I agree. Mostly meat, with berries and veggies scattered throughout - but not making the majority of caloric intake by any means.
Posted by Hulkklogan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2010
43482 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 9:01 am to
quote:

Anyone seen this documentary on Netflix? Basically a low carb documentary about one man's search on paleolithic diets.


No but I've been wanting a new nutrition documentary to watch. I need to put it on my list.

eta

I don't see it on netflix?
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 9:03 am
Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22542 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 9:01 am to
I'm just making a statement in general and not talking about the diet in the OP. I was really just being silly in my original post
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9225 posts
Posted on 1/5/18 at 9:09 am to
quote:

No but I've been wanting a new nutrition documentary to watch. I need to put it on my list.

eta

I don't see it on netflix?


Sry Hulk. It is on Amazon Prime. I'll update the OP.
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