re: HARDCORE LIFTERS ONLY: Apply within...

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frick that!!! nsuns is for those that are impatient and want to beat themselves into the ground. It is not a smart man's program and should not carry the 531 tag imo

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I can't tell if this is a joke or not. I've been doing the 4 day with a deload every 4-6 weeks for about a year and have yet to be beaten into the ground... The gains just keep coming.

I haven’t actually tried a 1RM in a while so I may actually be able to hit it.

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I can't tell if this is a joke or not. I've been doing the 4 day with a deload every 4-6 weeks for about a year and have yet to be beaten into the ground... The gains just keep coming.

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Not a joke. Even wendler himself has commented on how dumb the programming is in nsuns and he hardly ever does that. But congrats on the gains and being able to handle the volume, most can't. Nsuns is a young man's program.

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I don't even see that. Can you link it?

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It's on his paid forum. In not so many words it's made by another person that doesn't understand that the TM is not an indicator or strength and that the TM is just a tool to build strength and regulate bar speed.

Wendler says the following on nsuns (not direct quote but a summary)

*It is rushed. Trying to cram a full cycle of 531 into that kind of time frame is a recipe for quick gians and quick burnout. It will work for a while but the volume will eventually beat you down.

*The creator doesn't understand what the training Max is for. He assumes training max is an indicator or strength when it's anything but. It's a tool used to drive strength by using submaximal lifting allowing the lifter to set rep PRs all over the place. It is also a tool used to regulate bar speed.

Essentially he believes nsuns is another in a long line of knockoff programs that created with an improper understanding of of the 531 program in general.

I can actually vouch for that statement. I did n-suns for a while, but after about 2 months the lifter’s elbow and joint issues were overwhelming.

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So sheiko or any volume program isn't legit?

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No in fact his advanced 531 program in the beyond book is similar. He does believe volume based Bulgarian programs can lead to injury especially in older trainiees if not careful

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The TM in the program is to autoregulate the weights to lift

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its to regulate bar speed

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Wendler did not run the program, he only looked at it.

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Absolutely and it was the 6 day variation presented to him staht Essentially compressed a complete 531 cycle to two weeks.

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Sure, it's not as sophisticated as his but got damn, why does it have to be?

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It doesn't, honestly he hardly ever said anything bad about any program unless he is asked a specific question on his thoughts.

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Nsuns is a linear program and isn't designed for a life long program. Neither is starting strength. He ain't knocking that one is he?

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Original nsuns was weekly progress instead of monthly like 531 with a their 2 lift added as supplemental lift.

No he doesn't knock Starting Strength or really any programs. He was asked very specific questions on nsuns and asked to comment.

And yes I know about cap3


Look wendler doesn't talk about about other programs. He will give his opinion if specifically asked some times.

Bottom line is he and many other believe nsuns is a program that feels rushed with unnecessary volume.

And yes I am familiar with cap3.

Personally I think nsuns is a finw program but inferior to programs like greyskull, madcow, jacked and tan and 531.

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Personally I think nsuns is a finw program but inferior to programs like greyskull, madcow, jacked and tan and 531.

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I used it for what it was I assume it was intended for. Burst programming to bring up the base quicker. I completely agree that the volume is a little much for perceived progress but the heart of it is fine. I never did the last few sets but I never needed to.

531 is too damn slow to start out with when you are getting strength back from a hiatus. That's where nsuns comes in and then you roll into 531 or greyskull

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You are perceiving that there training number is the only way to build strength, it isn't. If it was westside would not be what they are. Plenty of other ways to track advancement other than absolute number. Rep prs, total tonnage, density etc are all ways to progress.

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You know better than to assume in 2018!

I do not believe that but when I want to stay in a rep range and the program is pigeon holing me into a weight that I can do for 10 but make me only do 5, I get bored and it takes too long.

When coming back from a hiatus, the main issue with people is the comfort level of heavy lifting and conditioning the body to accept those heavy weights. The strength is usually already there. Hell, that's the issue with people just starting the lift. It's not that they are getting "newb gains" they are conditioning the body to be comfortable with the weights. That's why Starting Strength is popular and quick. Almost any program will work with "newb gains" and people re conditioning their body.

Westside or more simply the conjugate method are advanced methods that the lifter should already be in a conditioned and peak shape. The small gains are because they are at the top already.

531 is a great program and one of the best but it still is not an advanced program for competitive lifters. Notice that I said "advanced for competitive" and don't say that it isn't for people to use to compete. It's still a "book" program and can't compete against completely custom programs.

In reality, the volume in Nsuns is really not that bad, I got lazy and just didn't want to do it.

Great! Now y'all have me rethinking Nsuns.. Any thoughts on Wendler's Build the Monolith? I know it's similar in volume but the intensity is lower and it's 3 days instead of 4. I'm thinking about trying it out for a 6 week cycle.