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Started By
Message
Free weights vs machines for hypertrophy
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:00 pm
For a long time I exclusively used free weights and thought machines or cables were for people who didn’t know that free weights were better. However, a few months ago I started reading arguments for why a machine is better for hypertrophy and they are pretty convincing. Essentially it’s because they stabilize the active joint(s) and a stable joint allows the body to produce maximal mechanical tension (force) and therefore overload the target muscle(s) more effectively. In contrast, having an unstable joint with free weights reduces that ability.
Paul Carter is the main guy that I’ve seen talking about this but there are others. You also see every modern bodybuilder using machines often as well (Ronnie Coleman is the exception to the rule).
I’ve adopted this strategy and I have noticed a dramatic ability to move more weight, get more reps at the end of a set and therefore to (over)load the target muscle. I’ve also noticed that it’s less fatiguing overall and believe I am less prone to injury.
I’d love to get others thoughts and experiences with this. I would encourage others to try it for themselves if they haven’t already. I will say I expect a negative reaction from many in the home gym and PPSA crowd for obvious reasons.
Paul Carter is the main guy that I’ve seen talking about this but there are others. You also see every modern bodybuilder using machines often as well (Ronnie Coleman is the exception to the rule).
I’ve adopted this strategy and I have noticed a dramatic ability to move more weight, get more reps at the end of a set and therefore to (over)load the target muscle. I’ve also noticed that it’s less fatiguing overall and believe I am less prone to injury.
I’d love to get others thoughts and experiences with this. I would encourage others to try it for themselves if they haven’t already. I will say I expect a negative reaction from many in the home gym and PPSA crowd for obvious reasons.
6
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:25 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
For a long time I exclusively used free weights and thought machines or cables were for people who didn’t know that free weights were better. However, a few months ago I started reading arguments for why a machine is better for hypertrophy and they are pretty convincing. Essentially it’s because they stabilize the active joint(s) and a stable joint allows the body to produce maximal mechanical tension (force) and therefore overload the target muscle(s) more effectively. In contrast, having an unstable joint with free weights reduces that ability.
Paul Carter is the main guy that I’ve seen talking about this but there are others. You also see every modern bodybuilder using machines often as well (Ronnie Coleman is the exception to the rule).
I’ve adopted this strategy and I have noticed a dramatic ability to move more weight, get more reps at the end of a set and therefore to (over)load the target muscle. I’ve also noticed that it’s less fatiguing overall and believe I am less prone to injury.
for pure hypertrophy, after initial strength phases, machines can be better. they allow you to target a specific muscle without having to stabilize, allow you to get closer to failure safely etc etc etc
not for overall health, i would arguing being able to move weight freely through space is better.
same with athletic training
quote:
I’d love to get others thoughts and experiences with this. I would encourage others to try it for themselves if they haven’t already. I will say I expect a negative reaction from many in the home gym and PPSA crowd for obvious reasons.
i mean i doubt you will get much hate. i dunno many that dont just train athletes that dont love good machine work. obviously in a home gym we have to make sacrifices due to space and money so we try and recreate machines with attachments.
i happen to be lucky in that i have a ghd, cable machine, a rogers squat pro machine and a sorinex hurricane so i can rig to simulate many machines.
but look how popular jammer arms are with the home gym crowd, the reason is because of trying to simulate machines.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:28 pm to lsu777
quote:
in a home gym we have to make sacrifices due to space and money
100%
I would absolutely have some machines if space and cash were of no concern.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:07 pm to lsu777
quote:
not for overall health, i would arguing being able to move weight freely through space is better.
I would say having a significant amount of muscle mass should be someone’s primary objective initially when training for overall health given the health benefits of muscle. It’s metabolically active which reduces obesity, it lowers blood sugar, and it provides a buffer in illness. You also appear healthier which has it’s own benefits in professional and social settings as well as in self esteem, which have large effects on overall health.
Why do you say moving objects in space is paramount for overall health? Balance, stability, proprioception? I agree those are important but I would place them below size and strength in level of importance for health. For me, once I get to my muscle mass goal I will start incorporating more stability work, though probably not under heavy loads due to injury risk
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:14 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
I would say having m a significant amount of muscle mass should be someone primary objective initially when training for overall health given the health benefits of muscle. It’s metabolically active which reduces obesity, it lowers blood sugar, and it provides a buffer in illness. You also appear healthier which has it’s own benefits in professional and social settings as well as in self esteem, which have large effects on overall health.
agree with all of this
quote:
Why do you say moving objects in space is paramount for overall health?
this
quote:
Balance, stability, proprioception?
and the ability to actually show strength. many times with simply machine work, the ability to actually apply strength gained is limited hince the term "all show, no go"
quote:
I get to my muscle mass goal
i dont get this...is this a an option becasue i been working for the last 25+ years that you never reach those goals
now you tell me this is an option in all seriousness i doubt you ever actually reach those goals
and ftr you can achieve all the goals you laid out with free weight work too.
if you are going to use machines and pure hypertrophy is the goal, i highly suggest you look at doggcrapp training and get after it. that program is the best program for getting from point a to point b size wise.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:13 pm to lsu777
I use only dumbells and machines now. Due to the gym I have access too. I get plenty of stimulus/ fatigue and I also agree with triple 7 here, I had 25 years of heavy barbell work which laid a lot of muscle on my frame. At nearly 50 I am more concerned with staying healthy and the ability to keep lifting without having to take months off for surgery/injuries.
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:41 pm to NewOrleansBlend
Sure I would love to have some machines. A belt squat or leg press would help tremendously. If I bought that my wife would be sure to make me sleep with it.
My plan when my son gets older is to have a 3 month block every year dedicated to bodybuilding in a commercial gym.
I should just save my money and move next door to 777. He’s got the Taj Mahal of home gyms.
My plan when my son gets older is to have a 3 month block every year dedicated to bodybuilding in a commercial gym.
I should just save my money and move next door to 777. He’s got the Taj Mahal of home gyms.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:48 pm to bamaguy17
quote:
I should just save my money and move next door to 777. He’s got the Taj Mahal of home gyms.
i got lucky and got mine before covid
i want to get a rep athena LINK and put the rogue kb storage on the back uprights or build one where i could put the hurricane arms on trolleys and have the ability to hook the selectorizer weight to the arms.
would also like to replace my rack with rep pr500 with jammer arms and the athena attachment too
also get a squat max md
so essentially replace power rack, my hurricane(well modify) and replace my sorinex lat pull down.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:49 pm to NewOrleansBlend
For machines, there are a lot of little tweaks to really get the most contraction/squeeze/pump out of them that you can’t always do with free weights. Also the ease of doing drop sets and going to failure on a machine can really put a lot of muscle on you quick.
But it seems like you can wipe yourself out on barbell strength training to the point you’re just completely done for the day, whereas I can hit the machines, toast those specific muscle groups, and then do cardio or go for a long walk or whatever.
But it seems like you can wipe yourself out on barbell strength training to the point you’re just completely done for the day, whereas I can hit the machines, toast those specific muscle groups, and then do cardio or go for a long walk or whatever.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 5:41 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
(Ronnie Coleman is the exception to the rule)
Probably wishes he would have done a few more machines back in the day.
Damn, he is in bad shape.
Posted on 2/8/23 at 5:54 pm to MWP
That’s more cause he was popping pills to mask the pain and not listening to his body. Would have done the same thing with machines. At one time he was taking more pain pills that he was orals steroids 
Posted on 2/8/23 at 6:56 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
I’d love to get others thoughts and experiences with this.
quote:
they stabilize the active joint(s) and a stable joint allows the body to produce maximal mechanical tension (force) and therefore overload the target
Not sure about getting the mass you want, but machines are a godsend for people that have had injuries, are cautious and/or rehabbing a specific area like a shoulder or a knee. 2 shoulder rebuilds and 2 knee scopes for me.
The shoulder and chest machines that allow you to control the weight on each side makes it easy to safely focus on doing the movement properly.
Even after all the rehab I still use machines.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 11:32 am to NewOrleansBlend
Machines are good for their ability to overload a target muscle and create symmetry. Free weights are obviously more functional. If you only train with free weights you will probably benefit from switching to machines and vice versa. I've been on free weights for a while (home gym) and am currently fighting some lower back issues. So i just bought a cable attachment and I'm taking some time off the barbell. Currently running a unilateral program centered around gymnastics rings and cable movements hoping to let my spine heal while addressing any muscle imbalances that may be causing the back problems.
This post was edited on 2/9/23 at 11:36 am
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