re: Amount of protein in one sitting

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Got ya and I don't know if this matters but I'm not sure I was clear in my goal. Not trying to bulk up, just build and tone some lean muscle as I lose weight/fat. Lookin for a leaner and tone look not really trying to get "swole"

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then do this

250 calorie deficit w/1g protein per lbs of bodyweight

greyskull lp as your lifting program

finish each lifitng day with 10 min of conditioning from the Greyskull Viking conditioning books

10k steps per day.

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No you don't. You can be in a small deficit and still build muscle. It may not be the most efficient way to build muscle, depending on the person and their goals, but it absolutely can be done and is done often. You don't "have to" be in a surplus. For the person already in extremely good shape, it would be a lot harder to do as they are already very lean. For the average person though, it isn't difficult at all.

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so in other words one of the exception i put. If you are a novice, coming off long layoff, obese or juicing

sure

but if oyu are at 15% bodyfat, been lifitng for 2-3 years, you cant go recomp on a caloric deficit.

I mean, the link you just posted is arguing exactly what i've said. The problem is you are speaking in absolutes, where the study is not. You said it can only be done in a surplus unless you are in those specific groups. That study shows that is not the case and everyone can build muscle in a deficit, it just works better for some groups more than others, which is no different than any other method.

As I also said, it may not be the most efficient method to build muscle, however that doesn't not mean it can't be done as you've implied. It is far easier to build muscle in a calorie deficit if you are very new to resistance training/very overweight, etc but that is a very different statement than you can only do it if you are in those groups. It is just bad advice to say it can't be done, especially without knowing the individual circumstances and state of the person asking the question. There have been many studies that have shown that it is not a requirement, like everything in fitness it depends on the magnitude and th person.

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I mean, the link you just posted is arguing exactly what i've said. The problem is you are speaking in absolutes, where the study is not. You said it can only be done in a surplus unless you are in those specific groups. That study shows that is not the case and everyone can build muscle in a deficit, it just works better for some groups more than others, which is no different than any other method.

As I also said, it may not be the most efficient method to build muscle, however that doesn't not mean it can't be done as you've implied. It is far easier to build muscle in a calorie deficit if you are very new to resistance training/very overweight, etc but that is a very different statement than you can only do it if you are in those groups. It is just bad advice to say it can't be done, especially without knowing the individual circumstances and state of the person asking the question. There have been many studies that have shown that it is not a requirement, like everything in fitness it depends on the magnitude and th person.

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if you have ever tried to do it....its almost impossible. you have to stay pretty much perfect with diet/training/ sleep/recovery that for 99.99% of cases its impossible.

the op could but its pretty much impossible to build any real amount of muscle outside of those 4 cases i mentioned.

it just leads to spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere and frustration.

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it just leads to spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere and frustration.

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This pretty much sums it up.

Schmelly that looks like the Jordan Syatt way.

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That’s my understanding. Anyone, please correct me if I’m wrong.

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That's the correct understanding. It may not be the most efficient way to build muscle to "maximize" muscle gains, but it absolutely can be done and pretty much every study out there shows this. Like everything though, there are limits and diminishing returns. If you are in an extreme deficit (more than 500 calories per day or so), the muscle gains start drastically declining. Similarly with going in a surplus, they've shown that there isn't much benefit to your muscle gains above roughly 10% over maintenance, at that point you just start storing fat and your muscle gains don't really go up at any higher rate.

Stay under a 500 calorie deficit per day and make sure you get all your protein in, and you can gain muscle and lose body fat while in a healthy calorie deficit.