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What's the most important skill in golf? All the data points to driving
Posted on 8/1/19 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 8/1/19 at 9:41 pm
LINK
Link above is to a tweet that shows guys who drive it over 310 average almost 3 times as much money than guys that hit it 300 and hitting it less than 300 pretty much disqualifies you from sustained success. Putting has shown to have to much of a variance, but good drivers of the ball can consistently drive it better than everyone else.
Additionally, 7 of the top 10 in the OWGR are in the top 15 of strokes gained of the tee and 7 are also in the top 25 of strokes gained off the tee.
It's become very clear that distance of the tee is the most important skill in golf with the current equipment and course setups.
Let the drive for show, putt for dough narrative die.
Link above is to a tweet that shows guys who drive it over 310 average almost 3 times as much money than guys that hit it 300 and hitting it less than 300 pretty much disqualifies you from sustained success. Putting has shown to have to much of a variance, but good drivers of the ball can consistently drive it better than everyone else.
Additionally, 7 of the top 10 in the OWGR are in the top 15 of strokes gained of the tee and 7 are also in the top 25 of strokes gained off the tee.
It's become very clear that distance of the tee is the most important skill in golf with the current equipment and course setups.
Let the drive for show, putt for dough narrative die.
16
Posted on 8/1/19 at 10:18 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Makes some sense. You can’t attack and score if you don’t put yourself into a good position off the tee. Although with amateurs I think the best way for most of us to improve is short game. I’ll never drive 310 - I’m thrilled to get it 270 and somewhere close to the fairway. But I can cut down on 3 putts and improve me feel chipping the ball with practice.
Posted on 8/1/19 at 10:31 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
LINK
Link above is to a tweet that shows guys who drive it over 310 average almost 3 times as much money than guys that hit it 300 and hitting it less than 300 pretty much disqualifies you from sustained success. Putting has shown to have to much of a variance, but good drivers of the ball can consistently drive it better than everyone else.
Additionally, 7 of the top 10 in the OWGR are in the top 15 of strokes gained of the tee and 7 are also in the top 25 of strokes gained off the tee.
It's become very clear that distance of the tee is the most important skill in golf with the current equipment and course setups.
Let the drive for show, putt for dough narrative die.
At that level, there is zero question that getting it off the tee is the most important part of the game. I’d say that’s generally also true for good amateurs.
The variation in putting between great putters and poor putters isn’t large enough to matter as much as the variation between great drivers and poor drivers.
Second most important would be iron game - maybe even right there with driving.
Posted on 8/1/19 at 10:41 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
The variation in putting between great putters and poor putters isn’t large enough to matter as much as the variation between great drivers and poor drivers.
Second most important would be iron game - maybe even right there with driving
No doubt. The best way I've heard it described was from Mark brodie himself. If an amateur and a pro have a contest from 25 feet putting the pro might make 1 more out of 10 than an am so he's going to win that contest by 1 or 2 strokes. Now move it back to 200 yards. In 10 attempts the pro is going to get the ball in the hole is just over two shots. The am will be lucky to average 3 shots per attempt from that distance.
Pretty much the closer you get to the hole the less disparity you see in skill
Posted on 8/1/19 at 10:59 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
No doubt. The best way I've heard it described was from Mark brodie himself. If an amateur and a pro have a contest from 25 feet putting the pro might make 1 more out of 10 than an am so he's going to win that contest by 1 or 2 strokes. Now move it back to 200 yards. In 10 attempts the pro is going to get the ball in the hole is just over two shots. The am will be lucky to average 3 shots per attempt from that distance.
Pretty much the closer you get to the hole the less disparity you see in skill
If you’re referencing the podcast he did with NLU, that’s a great one.
The bit about Tiger being - by a considerable margin - the greatest iron player to play in the modern game was revealing. Shoot, I even look at it now and see shades of great iron play in guys like Stenson and Rose. It’s lengthened their effective careers.
I actually dabbled a bit in the advanced stats game for golf at one time and have thought - and still occasionally consider - dipping my toe in the game with some of the more well-known players like 15th Club. That’s something of a dream job, but they obviously don’t pay all that well at the moment. The microeconomics of the sport - as in, gauging the effectiveness of how effective certain resources, skills, and shots are - are really interesting.
This post was edited on 8/1/19 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 8/1/19 at 11:02 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
I actually dabbled a bit in the advanced stats game for golf at one time and have thought - and still occasionally consider - dipping my toe in the game with some of the more well-known players like 15th Club. That’s something of a dream job, but they obviously don’t pay all that well at the moment. The microeconomics of the sport - as in, gauging the effectiveness of how effective certain resources, skills, and shots are - are really interesting.
You may be my alter ego. That or a cap specialist in the NBA would be my dream jobs.
Posted on 8/1/19 at 11:54 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
The professional game is not even close to the same game that we or even great amateurs play.
Posted on 8/1/19 at 11:55 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Hitting it long off the tee is only important if you are tiger in ‘04 and still have a great putt rate
The key to golf is cleaning up around the greens. Strokes gained putting, what you do from inside 200.
There are guys here who can outdrive your pros, but they can’t put it to 3 ft from 160 on their best day ever
The key to golf is cleaning up around the greens. Strokes gained putting, what you do from inside 200.
There are guys here who can outdrive your pros, but they can’t put it to 3 ft from 160 on their best day ever
Posted on 8/2/19 at 6:29 am to Mingo Was His NameO
It’s driving and it’s not all that close.
Posted on 8/2/19 at 7:03 am to Dawgsontop34
I disagree. It will always be putting. A good putt can make up for a lousy chip, a lousy iron shot, or a lousy tee shot. A good chip, iron shot or tee shot can't make up for a lousy putt afterwards.
Dustin Johnson crushes his drives when he shoots 67. He also crushes his drives when he shoots 72. The difference between the scores is always whether or not he makes putts. Gary Woodland lead tournaments in driving all the time. How many majors did that get him? When he lead the field in putting and getting up and down in a major how many has he won?
Dustin Johnson crushes his drives when he shoots 67. He also crushes his drives when he shoots 72. The difference between the scores is always whether or not he makes putts. Gary Woodland lead tournaments in driving all the time. How many majors did that get him? When he lead the field in putting and getting up and down in a major how many has he won?
This post was edited on 8/2/19 at 7:10 am
Posted on 8/2/19 at 7:06 am to 88Wildcat
quote:
It will always be putting. A good putt can make up for a lousy chip, a lousy iron shot, or a lousy tee shot. A good chip, iron shot or tee shot can't make up for a lousy putt afterwards.
Even Rory, who is arguably the most elite ball striker top to bottom in the world right now, doesn't win unless he putts well.
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:01 am to Zanzibaw
quote:
Even Rory, who is arguably the most elite ball striker top to bottom in the world right now, doesn't win unless he putts well.
Winning takes luck, and it's the best ball striker who is the best putter that week. The best ball strikers just need to be an average putter.
The most consistent and best players are always near the top of strokes gained:driving
Top 10 in strokes gained:off the tee FedEx Cup rank 2019 - 33.5
Top 10 in strokes gained:putting FedEx Cup rank 2019 - 81.8
Over a tournament, the guy who has wedge, even out of the rough, will consistently beat the guy who's hitting 7 iron
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:29 am to Zanzibaw
quote:
Even Rory, who is arguably the most elite ball striker top to bottom in the world right now, doesn't win unless he putts average.
The players:
Sg tee to green: 3.32
Sg putting: .17
Canadian Open:
Sg tee to green: 3.82
Sg putting: 1.46
That week the guy that finished third in putting missed the cut
Tour Championship:
Sg tee to green: 2.71
Sg putting: -.11
The list goes on and on for Rorys and everyone else's wins.
Top 10 in strokes gained off the tee:
Mcilroy
Hovland
Van Royen
Johnson
Rahm
Watson
Keith Mitchell
Paul Casey
Day Vegas
Strokes gained tee to green:
Mcilroy
Justin Thomas
Dustin johnson
Cantlay
Hideki
Adam Scott
Paul casey
Tiger
Hovland
Ben An
Top 10 strokes gained putting:
Justin Harding
Denny Mccarthy
G McDowell
Justin Rose
Andrew Putnam
Speith
Vaughn Taylor
Beau Hossler
Dominic Bozzeli
Aaron Baddeley
You tell me which lists are better. Sg t2g has the top ranked players in the world. Sg putting has guys currently outside of the top 125 in the FedEx Cup.
This post was edited on 8/2/19 at 8:30 am
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:33 am to 88Wildcat
quote:
I disagree. It will always be putting. A good putt can make up for a lousy chip, a lousy iron shot, or a lousy tee shot. A good chip, iron shot or tee shot can't make up for a lousy putt afterwards.
A good tee shot leads to an easy approach shot which leads to a makeable putt.
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:37 am to UpToPar
quote:
A good tee shot leads to an easy approach shot which leads to a makeable putt.
It's pretty easy to understand if you think about it. Pros make 50% of putts from 8 feet away from the hole. How many times can you hit it within 8 feet with a wedge compared to a 6 or 7 iron? The dispersion rate on putting is really really low, even 2015 when speith was winning everything he was doing that from iron play, not putting. In fact, his putting from 10 feet was actually bad, but he was great from 25+ feet making something like 8% of those instead of 2-3% average (I'm trying to recall the numbers on that off the top of my head)
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:43 am to Mingo Was His NameO
I disagree with this to an extent. Obviously, hitting it far and straight is an advantage, however, most guys at the professional level (PGA or other pro tours) can hit it around 300 yards or longer.
Take Spieth for example. When he was at his best in 2014 and 2015 he was making every putt he looked at. He has no where near the length of DJ, Rory, Day, etc. However, he was lapping the field on the greens and winning majors. Now, he isn't the same putter that he was and he is an "average" PGA Tour player.
This is just my uninformed opinion FWIW.
Take Spieth for example. When he was at his best in 2014 and 2015 he was making every putt he looked at. He has no where near the length of DJ, Rory, Day, etc. However, he was lapping the field on the greens and winning majors. Now, he isn't the same putter that he was and he is an "average" PGA Tour player.
This is just my uninformed opinion FWIW.
Posted on 8/2/19 at 8:47 am to tigerfan019
quote:
When he was at his best in 2014 and 2015 he was making every putt he looked at
Wrong
quote:
Now, he isn't the same putter that he was and he is an "average" PGA Tour player.
He putted better this year than he did in 2015
read this article
Posted on 8/2/19 at 9:04 am to tigerfan019
quote:
Take Spieth for example. When he was at his best in 2014 and 2015 he was making every putt he looked at. He has no where near the length of DJ, Rory, Day, etc. However, he was lapping the field on the greens and winning majors. Now, he isn't the same putter that he was and he is an "average" PGA Tour player.
In 2015, he was the #4 ball striker on tour tee to green. Combine that with being the #9 putter on tour, it leads to winning some majors.
Posted on 8/2/19 at 9:52 am to Mingo Was His NameO
This could be broken into two discussions, the tour and the average golfer.
The tour gives a huge benefit to great drivers because they are all good putters. There isn’t a huge disparity among the best putters and the worst putters on tour. But there is a gap between the longest and straightest drivers and the shorter drivers. Zach Johnson and Dustin Johnson would be very similar on the greens, but they hit the ball so differently off the tee that DJ gets an advantage. Imagine getting an extra 30 yards on par 4s and 5s.
For the average golfer, you putt for dough. It’s always been that way. You make up a lot of shots on the course with good short game. While I’d love to be able to have DJs driver, I’d rather have the putting of anyone on tour. You make me the worst putter on tour and I beat everyone at the local dogfight. You give me DJs driver, and I still probably won’t break par.
The interesting thought is whether we will have any short knockers on tour in 10 - 15 years.
The tour gives a huge benefit to great drivers because they are all good putters. There isn’t a huge disparity among the best putters and the worst putters on tour. But there is a gap between the longest and straightest drivers and the shorter drivers. Zach Johnson and Dustin Johnson would be very similar on the greens, but they hit the ball so differently off the tee that DJ gets an advantage. Imagine getting an extra 30 yards on par 4s and 5s.
For the average golfer, you putt for dough. It’s always been that way. You make up a lot of shots on the course with good short game. While I’d love to be able to have DJs driver, I’d rather have the putting of anyone on tour. You make me the worst putter on tour and I beat everyone at the local dogfight. You give me DJs driver, and I still probably won’t break par.
The interesting thought is whether we will have any short knockers on tour in 10 - 15 years.
Posted on 8/2/19 at 9:58 am to Winston Cup
quote:
Hitting it long off the tee is only important if you are tiger in ‘04
Lack of nitro detected
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