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Started By
Message
re: PGA Tour players meeting tomorrow regarding LIV
Posted on 8/16/22 at 4:24 pm to RummelTiger
Posted on 8/16/22 at 4:24 pm to RummelTiger
quote:
So why do you think it's not sustainable for the Saudi's to continue to operate it?
Guess I should have said, it wouldn't be sustainable for any entity actually hoping to make a profit. Of course the Saudis can afford it and don't care if they lose money on this little side endeavor. I just wonder how long they will be interested in golf for.
2
Posted on 8/16/22 at 4:24 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
They should be stringing Jay up by his thumbs and beating him with 5-irons for hiding tens of millions from them all these years.
He has only been in the position for 5 years now.
"The Tour funds four primary pension plans with assets totaling $387 million. PGA Tour players are eligible for three plans, Champions Tour players are eligible for one and Nationwide Tour players are shut out altogether. The vesting periods vary for each. PGA Tour players are eligible for pension benefits after four or five years, while Champions players can fully vest in as few as 12 tournaments"
On average, it pays a player with 10 years of service in the game $180,000 annually, according to MLBPA documents. If a player were to collect $200,000 a year from the pension plan, it would take more than 40 years to collect the $8.3 million estimated to be in Mickelson's deferred-income plan.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 4:25 pm to RedHawk
quote:
Guess I should have said, it wouldn't be sustainable for any entity actually hoping to make a profit.
You don't know that
quote:
I just wonder how long they will be interested in golf for.
That'll depend on how much money they're making
Posted on 8/16/22 at 5:05 pm to RedHawk
quote:
If the PGA Tour tried to even come close to matching what LIV is offering, they would probably be out of business in under five years.
The point isn't whether the Tour can match the Saudis dollar for dollar. Of course they can't. The point is, if Jay could miraculously come up with tens of millions in additional purse money; where were all these monies going in previous years when there wasn't pressure from the LIV? Don't say it was a new media rights deal. If it was, Jay would have announced it at the time the rights deal was inked.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 5:34 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Guess I should have said, it wouldn't be sustainable for any entity actually hoping to make a profit.
You don't know that
Only you Greg Norman and Greg's Grandma are the only ones that think this venture can be profitable outside Saudi funding. The only reason it exists now is the combination of a Saudi hobby and Saudi need for an improved image. If a top 48 league were to be profitable, then companies would have backed it years ago - Normans had this bug since the 80s at least. So the Saudis are putting 10 figures into this, there's no amount of TV revenue and ticket sales that will cover that. But let's say that down the road that Saudis drop out and the LIV is left to fend for itself. Let's just say that they do have the top 48 players... How would they generate more advertising dollars than the Players ( which has had all 48 and many more) or Augusta or The Opens. LIV is going to have overhead also ( what is Greg's salary?) So can it be profitable with out the Saudis given their current rate of spending ? .. Sure. Can some hit 18 consecutive hole in ones .. Sure ( and dont say they can't because .. You don't know that it can't)
Posted on 8/16/22 at 5:52 pm to SuperOcean
quote:
How would they generate more advertising dollars than the Players
Not play in Ponte Vedra Beach Florida and sell sponsorships for the teams.
Will it work? I don't know, but a bullion dollar investment really isn't that much. Startups run at these kinds of losses and much more all the time.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 5:56 pm to SuperOcean
quote:
SuperOcean
They goal is to create value for the teams, just like other sports franchises. Have owners of those teams and sell sponsorships. Not sure if it will be eventually be successful but I love the idea.
This post was edited on 8/16/22 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 8/16/22 at 6:02 pm to SoFla Tideroller
We shouldn't assume professional golfers are all good business people.
Every PGA Tour member get an annual Tour financial statement. Nobody is hiding money.
The Tour may be in a healthy financial position right now, but that wasn't always the case just a couple of decades ago.
To say that every tour player owes Tiger is a huge understatement. He brought increased interest and expanded TV exposure.
It will be interesting to see what level that Tiger wants to be involved in the fight.
Every PGA Tour member get an annual Tour financial statement. Nobody is hiding money.
The Tour may be in a healthy financial position right now, but that wasn't always the case just a couple of decades ago.
To say that every tour player owes Tiger is a huge understatement. He brought increased interest and expanded TV exposure.
It will be interesting to see what level that Tiger wants to be involved in the fight.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 6:16 pm to bopper50
Posted on 8/16/22 at 6:36 pm to Tyga Woods
More importantly, why is he driving a Nissan?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 6:48 pm to bopper50
Note: I've been out of town 2 days...first chance to say something(not to you bopper, just a general response):
The PGA meeting should put to rest that the PGA players are NOT upset. Obvious they are and have been and continue as long as top players leave for LIV.
Monohan(sp?) has been a bad commissioner for the PGA. He is not helping their cause one bit.
PGA has invested even more into the Euro(DP) tour....more purse money and an increased % of ownership...I think up to 40% from 25% over the next 13 yrs. So the money invested in purses have/will be increasing due to the LIV tour. The DP tour is happy, but are now even more enslaved to the PGA's will.
LIV tour should get points like other tours do. However, they must play 72 holes to earn those points.
The PGA can ban LIV players from THEIR tourneys as they wish unless points get earned, then the PGA needs to back off that.
The majors would be dumb to leave LIV players out, especially past champs and those that earned their rankings before leaving. Even then, popular LIV players would draw better crowds and better ratings, more money.
Kinda weird seeing commercials with DJ and another w/ Koepka endorsing golf products during a Fed Ex playoff. I wonder how that happened? I thought sponsors dropped LIV players and could not be associated w/ PGA sponsors at all?
LIV will get sponsors, just a matter of time. Plus some network will pick the LIV tour up. Inevitable.
I watch PGA, DP and LIV golf. PGA coverage is not too good at all, but I still watch.
Personally, I think a merger of some kind will happen that includes a team aspect of some kind. If the PGA and DP tours can have a merger, but remain separate so can LIV be a part of that as well.
The PGA meeting should put to rest that the PGA players are NOT upset. Obvious they are and have been and continue as long as top players leave for LIV.
Monohan(sp?) has been a bad commissioner for the PGA. He is not helping their cause one bit.
PGA has invested even more into the Euro(DP) tour....more purse money and an increased % of ownership...I think up to 40% from 25% over the next 13 yrs. So the money invested in purses have/will be increasing due to the LIV tour. The DP tour is happy, but are now even more enslaved to the PGA's will.
LIV tour should get points like other tours do. However, they must play 72 holes to earn those points.
The PGA can ban LIV players from THEIR tourneys as they wish unless points get earned, then the PGA needs to back off that.
The majors would be dumb to leave LIV players out, especially past champs and those that earned their rankings before leaving. Even then, popular LIV players would draw better crowds and better ratings, more money.
Kinda weird seeing commercials with DJ and another w/ Koepka endorsing golf products during a Fed Ex playoff. I wonder how that happened? I thought sponsors dropped LIV players and could not be associated w/ PGA sponsors at all?
LIV will get sponsors, just a matter of time. Plus some network will pick the LIV tour up. Inevitable.
I watch PGA, DP and LIV golf. PGA coverage is not too good at all, but I still watch.
Personally, I think a merger of some kind will happen that includes a team aspect of some kind. If the PGA and DP tours can have a merger, but remain separate so can LIV be a part of that as well.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 6:56 pm to TDTOM
quote:
More importantly, why is he driving a Nissan?
That was my second thought.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 6:59 pm to Tyga Woods
He should be rolling up in a phantom.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:01 pm to Swagga
quote:
My opinion on Tiger being summoned is he’s looked at as someone like a players union president. When he speaks the other players are going to listen and he can keep things moving.
I think Tiger is being brought into the fray mainly because, regardless of how competitive he is, he is the only player who can, by himself, affect everyone’s money
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:02 pm to Taurus
I agree with a lot of your points.
Great point about the PGA Tour investment into the DP Tour.
54 holes and no cut just seems illegitimate right now.
Don't see any reason for the Tour to do any merger with LIV right now.
I still believe that Norman was a bad choice for CEO of LIV. He has too many axes to grind.
Bottom line is, The PGA Tour is owned by the player's. They will make the final decisions moving forward.
Great point about the PGA Tour investment into the DP Tour.
54 holes and no cut just seems illegitimate right now.
Don't see any reason for the Tour to do any merger with LIV right now.
I still believe that Norman was a bad choice for CEO of LIV. He has too many axes to grind.
Bottom line is, The PGA Tour is owned by the player's. They will make the final decisions moving forward.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:08 pm to RedHawk
quote:
I'm guessing the LIV players are saying the PGA Tour is colluding with the OWGR to not allow them to receive OWGR points.
That, among other things, is exactly what they’re alleging. The collision is the PGA’s biggest exposure to anti-trust violations, not banning LIV players from playing on the PGA Tour
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:11 pm to bamameister
quote:
The PGA does promote pro golf as a sport, it is not designed to just promote golf. It is designed to make money and does a damn good job at it. Taxpayers should not have to subsidize billion-dollar leagues or their millionaire players.
If they lose that tax exempt status, wouldn’t that just result in less money to pay out to the players?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:17 pm to bopper50
quote:
I still believe that Norman was a bad choice for CEO of LIV. He has too many axes to grind.
To be honest, I'm not sure about the bad blood btn Norman and the PGA. All I know is Norman tried getting another tour or something going outside the PGA. I really don't know what happened back then or what motivated him to "stick it" to the PGA. Honest answer too lazy to research. Anybody have a quick outline what happened with Norman/PGA?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:17 pm to Tyga Woods
quote:
Rickie riding shotgun. Why is Tiger driving??
Posted on 8/16/22 at 7:18 pm to bopper50
quote:
54 holes and no cut just seems illegitimate right now.
But a net championship to decide the playoffs is super legit
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