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Message
re: PGA Tour players meeting tomorrow regarding LIV
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:05 am to PhiTiger1764
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:05 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
The entire premise of his comment was that the tour was not generating billions (multiple, plural) and holding out, not that they are not holding out at all.
No it wasn't
quote:
So yes, not only do we have an idea but we know for 100% certain that the tour is not sitting around with an extra $3B, $7B, $20B etc. because they literally post their revenue every year and it’s not close to that.
You can't hold money? They could hold $500 million a year for, after your 4 they would have billions. Do you have a savings account? An 8 year old could understand this
1
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:05 am to TDTOM
quote:
The tour doesn't need to collude with OWGR.
Don't need to and aren't are different things
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:22 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
They literally report their financial data every year and it can be found with a couple of mouse clicks.
Can you post the link? I seriously can't find it.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:27 am to theone
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:28 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You can't hold money? They could hold $500 million a year for, after your 4 they would have billions. Do you have a savings account? An 8 year old could understand this
Guess what? They also post their net assets, you fricking doorknob.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:28 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
People think the Pgatour is generating billions and not paying out. That’s false
You have no idea if that is true or not
I do have an idea ... That it is false
I'm still curious where you think the PGA tour is hiding the money("audited books don't mean ___" )
This post was edited on 8/16/22 at 10:29 am
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:31 am to SuperOcean
According to the podcast they had $300M in reserves before the pandemic. That was drained down and eventually they got it back up to $250M by starting to play again early. If they wouldn't have started playing again early it would have gone to around $100M.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:42 am to PhiTiger1764
Phi - thanks for the link.
This is interesting a couple of off the cuff notes (from 2020 since its latest full report)
Rev Total ~1,167m Media ~$550m Tournaments ~$400m
Total expenses $1,461m (they pay the tour officers way to much) - Clark Construction Group got paid $33m (assume that is their buildings and/or courses?)
Total Assets - Is $3.3 Billion - shown clear as day ($1.7 of which is publicly traded securities) - Liabilities however is $2.1b
This is interesting a couple of off the cuff notes (from 2020 since its latest full report)
Rev Total ~1,167m Media ~$550m Tournaments ~$400m
Total expenses $1,461m (they pay the tour officers way to much) - Clark Construction Group got paid $33m (assume that is their buildings and/or courses?)
Total Assets - Is $3.3 Billion - shown clear as day ($1.7 of which is publicly traded securities) - Liabilities however is $2.1b
Posted on 8/16/22 at 10:47 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
Guess what? They also post their net assets, you fricking doorknob.
And that too often leaves a lot to the imagination as a tax-exempted organization. Profits are simply not measured or quantified as a normal business.
As we know, the PGA is exempt from federal income taxes on earnings, even though the organization claimed its revenues were close to $2 billion. When is a dollar more than a dollar? When Uncle Sam doesn't get his share.
It was reported in 2016, that the PGA tour raised more than $166 million for its charities, but if the organization brought in close to $2 billion, that is just 8% of its revenues given to charity.
According to an ESPN investigation, “24 of the 25 PGA Tour nonprofit tournaments spend less than 50 percent on charity, and, in one case, running a PGA tournament actually caused a charity to lose money—more than $4.5 million over two years.”
My personal spin on all of this charity stuff as a business model for pro golf:
The PGA does promote pro golf as a sport, it is not designed to just promote golf. It is designed to make money and does a damn good job at it. Taxpayers should not have to subsidize billion-dollar leagues or their millionaire players.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:01 am to TDTOM
quote:
According to the podcast they had $300M in reserves before the pandemic. That was drained down and eventually they got it back up to $250M by starting to play again early. If they wouldn't have started playing again early it would have gone to around $100M.
As any smart business would..and that balance would be reflected in the financials. That amount can cover a wide variety of issues that can arise: pandemics... Sponsors defaulting etc
There is this idea though, by some on this board, that the Tour is admin heavy, Monihan is making 20 million a year and money is being hidden some how
When Phil made his comment about 20 billion in player image being held by the Tour. A tour official (unnamed) advised..." Phil let us know who you got that will pay that and we'll reach out to them". The, by far, most profitable usage of PGA tour name and likeness ( outside of TV contracts) is Tiger Woods Golf (EA sports) and that made 770 million over 15 years (gross rev). There is zero chance, in normal Corporate environment, that PGA tour likeness is worth 20b ( I can't fathom it being even close) If Saudis want to prove Phil right, sure than can offer 20b no big deal... But thats not normal corporate environment
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:24 am to SuperOcean
quote:
There is this idea though, by some on this board, that the Tour is admin heavy, Monihan is making 20 million a year and money is being hidden some how
I wonder how much Norman is making as CEO of LIV Golf.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:35 am to theone
quote:
Why the players only meeting now? Why the urgency?
LIV announcing media deal w/ CBS?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:44 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
Guess what? They also post their net assets, you fricking doorknob.
Do you know what that means?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:47 am to SuperOcean
quote:
There is zero chance, in normal Corporate environment, that PGA tour likeness is worth 20b
It's not, but it's also bullshite that they players don't own their media rights at all. There is some sort of compromise to be made there. The players make their highlights on the Tour, but they aren't employed by the Tour either.
Phil, or anyone else, should be able to play a televised ebhibition on the Friday after Thanksgiving when there is no golf on without having to give the tour a million dollars for the privilege.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:16 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Phil, or anyone else, should be able to play a televised ebhibition on the Friday after Thanksgiving when there is no golf on without having to give the tour a million dollars for the privilege.
This never happened.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:22 pm to RedHawk
quote:
This never happened.
The event having to pay a million dollars isn't any different. Phil should be able to do whatever he wants in exhibitions, certainly when there is no pga tour golf going on.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:27 pm to theone
quote:
Why the players only meeting now? Why the urgency?
It’s an attempt to get around the anti-trust issue. Too 20 players and Tiger tell the majors they won’t play if they let LIV players in. Majors ban LIV.
The tour can claim they had no part in this clear violation of anti-trust rules.
Last week the players acted as if they were being sued personally because “we are the pga tour”. That sentiment is about to change real quick and they will be claiming a a big difference between the players personally and the tour.
This post was edited on 8/16/22 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:33 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
They literally report their financial data every year and it can be found with a couple of mouse clicks.
Patrick Cantlay disagrees. Can you link it for us?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 1:09 pm to BBONDS25
It’s been linked. Read.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 1:26 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Phil, or anyone else, should be able to play a televised ebhibition on the Friday after Thanksgiving when there is no golf on without having to give the tour a million dollars for the privilege.
This is an interesting issue, that I think goes back to the chicken/egg dilemma. Phil wouldn't have made 600 million with out the PGA tour: the history, the organized competition, the marketing. That being said: Phil was a major presence and revenue for the tour. Does Phil's agent get proceeds from all his "booked" events? ( I don't know but I would imagine he/she did get part of the 9 million he received for Tiger vs Phil) I personally would think that there is some benefit due to the tour for PGA stars playing golf for being recognized to be in an made for TV event. Phil's phireside chats, what ever he can monetize off those ( which are great) is solely Phil's dollars... In my opinion
This post was edited on 8/16/22 at 1:28 pm
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