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Started By
Message
re: How long before LIV golfers beg to come back to PGA?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:40 am to RummelTiger
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:40 am to RummelTiger
quote:
Steals many top PGA players.
True. This was great for LIV.
quote:
Manages a successful completion of their global tour
True. It did finish
quote:
Signs a TV deal
True. CW…
quote:
Basically breaks-even
In what world
0
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:06 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
It’s try and rehab their image and or to be competitive with each other
I tend to think that MBS and al Rumayyan aren't so naive (and their advisors, many of who are American or have lived in the U.S. for long periods of time, certainly aren't) that they think a high end professional golf league is going to offset reputational damage; if anything, it's brought a lot of that stuff back into the spotlight. I tend to think even some of the pro-Tour media have overplayed that aspect of it.
I think there is likely something to competing against Qatar and especially UAE. They are also trying to build out something of a high end tourist spot with ample golf in the Hejaz.
I think they simply might have been somewhat played by some of the people behind the vision - especially Norman - in building out the business case for it. McKinsey basically told them that it was stupid idea unless A, B, C, D, E, and F all happened - which was quite unlikely - and they went ahead with it anyway.
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:08 pm to RummelTiger
quote:
Basically breaks-even
No, not even close.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:18 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
The AT&T is never one of the strongest fields
Justin Rose won. No argument here. But that's also the new PGA.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:35 pm to bamameister
quote:
But that's also the new PGA.
The talent pool is still strong in the PGA. The waste mgmt is loaded.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:41 pm to Dire Wolf
Every real executive is fleeing LIV.
My guess is the Saudi’s are setting everything up to blame Norman for the failures.
My guess is the Saudi’s are setting everything up to blame Norman for the failures.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 1:10 pm to nicholastiger
Why would they leave playing on the the CW network ?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 1:30 pm to Tvilletiger
quote:
They are trying to create an entire culture and society there with a certain vision.
Saudi Arabia has a MUCH bigger plan. Agree with another poster, they have seen what Qatar has done and are trying to position themselves to be the destination for business/technology, sports, and tourism. Neom is the ultimate play. Golf is just one piece. A few months ago, GOLF Magazine had an article about golf in Saudi. Handful of Nicklaus and Norman courses scattered across the country. LIV will be about 10 minutes away from me at Orange County National. Have ZERO desire to go.
Neom is their end-all-be-all. NEOM
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:37 pm to bamameister
quote:
Speaking of brand, did you see the Pebble Beach leaderboard when the dust cleared? A real who's who if you follow the Korn Ferry and Asia Tour.
Must not have been able to watch the two previous PGA events. Were your white-framed Oakleys dirty, bro? Or were you and the boys smashing Natty Lights at your local muni?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:49 pm to STEVED00
quote:
Rogan podcast basically revealed how RICH the Saudis actually are. Basically something along the lines that since they are some sort of monarchy the Saudi monarchs dont owe any govt info on how much they are worth.
Rogan and his guest speculated that they could possibly be trillionaires
Kind of makes me wonder what if they randomly one day decided to shut down the LIV Tour and refused to pay out any more money to the players they previously guaranteed. Do the players have any recourse? Can they even sue a sovereignty like that?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:50 pm to hehateme2285
quote:
Now do Phoenix
Or the Farmers the week prior. That field was loaded.
The AT&T hasn't been a destination stop for all the top players in years.
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:55 pm to lsufball19
quote:
quote:
Now do Phoenix
Or the Farmers the week prior. That field was loaded.
The AT&T hasn't been a destination stop for all the top players in years.
Four of the next five: Phoenix, Genesis, API, Players
Posted on 2/7/23 at 3:00 pm to lsufball19
I’ve read a few places that they have committed to about five years to make something of it. This year two is far more important then the basic trial run last year. Anyone thinking they would be a profitable entity in the first year is delusional.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 3:38 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
You may want to rethink that.
LIV actually did the Tour a favor by taking some dead wood off their hands.
DJ, Neiman and Smith may be the exceptions, but so far this season the young talent has blossomed on the PGA Tour.
The younger Pro's may not be household names yet, but guys like McCarthy can golf their ball.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 3:48 pm to nicholastiger
quote:Do what?
The Tour has damaged LIV's brand
Posted on 2/7/23 at 3:51 pm to RummelTiger
quote:
Basically breaks-even
LIV Golf lawyers admit tour generated "virtually zeo" revenue in first season
Posted on 2/7/23 at 4:13 pm to RummelTiger
quote:
Signs a TV deal
bruh, its on CW
I mean good for them, but I dont think thats something they should crow abot. Not that they have.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 4:38 pm to bopper50
quote:
DJ, Neiman and Smith may be the exceptions, but so far this season the young talent has blossomed on the PGA Tour.
Cam Smith is far and away the biggest loss right now when factoring in future expectations, international reach, Q score, etc. Niemann is big loss as well, but he is so young that he could probably play his entire LIV contract, serve a bit of a suspension / wait for things to resolve, go back to the Tour, and still be in the prime of his career.
Phil obviously is a big commercial draw but absent one freakish tournament the guy was / is clearly fading as a relevant competitive force in the game. The elder European / international contingent (Stenson, Westwood, Garcia, Poulter, McDowell, Kaymer, Casey, etc.) can probably have their weeks still but aren't incrementally bringing very much, if anything, to the table in terms of TV ratings and overall fan draw and aren’t going to be consistent competitive threats.
I still like DJ a lot, and I think he is still a reasonably big commercial draw. He also can occasionally play some great golf; that said, I suspect his best days are behind him, and he couldn't have timed his exit better. He was already starting to slip (he hadn't seriously contended since his Masters win in fall of '20 and low key had a really shitty '21 - 22 season before he jumped), and it is the rare 38+ year old who is consistently elite, especially one who relies so much on physical gifts and distance.
Which brings me to Brooks, Bryson, and P. Both Brooks and Bryson are still top 15 or so commercial draws in the sport. Both probably could have great years ahead of them, but I question their physical longevity. Brooks is already on the wrong side of 30 to be having so many physical issues that it makes it excessively difficult to fully come back, and Bryson isn't far behind. Subjectively from a competitive standpoint, I think Brooks still really wants it; I question whether Bryson will be locked in like he needs to be over the next few years. Weirdly, I think P will be the most competitive and most squirrelly out of all these guys except probably Cam Smith in the majors in the next few years; this is the type of shite that fires him up, and the course fits are pretty good for him over the next few years.
I am not sure the rest of these guys are going to be competitively relevant except those two and Niemann in the rare occasion that they all play against each other.
They also should have stayed on YouTube and gone for ad revenue; the CW deal is going to hurt them.
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 2/7/23 at 6:49 pm to RummelTiger
No fricking way they came close to breaking even and their tv deal is shite
I like some guys that went to LIV and despise a few also.
Biggest problem with LIV is nobody gives a shite about who wins the Portland, Chicago, London, Bedminster, Singapore or whatever open. PGA tour has history and every event can be measured against past champions there.
I don’t wish the LIV guys I’ll will I just have zero interest in watching. When Norman is removed the 2 tours will reconcile. Probably take another 3 years or so
I like some guys that went to LIV and despise a few also.
Biggest problem with LIV is nobody gives a shite about who wins the Portland, Chicago, London, Bedminster, Singapore or whatever open. PGA tour has history and every event can be measured against past champions there.
I don’t wish the LIV guys I’ll will I just have zero interest in watching. When Norman is removed the 2 tours will reconcile. Probably take another 3 years or so
Posted on 2/7/23 at 7:07 pm to AbuTheMonkey
I’m not the target audience because I even watch the Korn Ferry and college golf early in the week. But they could have done amazing stuff with YouTube. No way the WB HS the resources for innovative and differentiated broadcasts.
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