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re: Audubon Park Golf - Potential Closure
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:53 pm to Swagga
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:53 pm to Swagga
Aren't most of those Semi-Public? TPC is public.
That is what I am arguing. Golf sucks in Louisiana. Too many courses.
Even the guy running a golf course in Texas says South Louisiana has too many courses and I agree. So, I am not surprised to hear someone is thinking of closing one. Especially when it is not making money.
quote:
Where is the population to support all that?
That is what I am arguing. Golf sucks in Louisiana. Too many courses.
Even the guy running a golf course in Texas says South Louisiana has too many courses and I agree. So, I am not surprised to hear someone is thinking of closing one. Especially when it is not making money.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 2:56 pm
1
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:54 pm to Swagga
Played Lakewood Sunday in 3 hours and never had to wait to take a shot once. Don't know if that's normal but I was amazed. It was in great condition too.
To your point though they are two completely separate business models. Neighborhood courses that have enough members to break even(500-600) are probably not found outside of very high end country clubs. The semi private model has some number of members, probably 100-200 but not enough to come even close to breaking even and then needs public play to make up the difference. The members usually want weekend tee times which eats up many of the most lucrative tee times and cost the course valuable public play. The member dollars do help during unusually wet or hot months though. It's a battle, but when you buy on a golf course you expect a course to be there which is why they so often continue operating even at a loss. If the course closes the development of the neighborhood becomes much less lucrative so you really don't have an option from the developers standpoint. As you can see it more of an overdevelopment problem than a golf problem.
To your point though they are two completely separate business models. Neighborhood courses that have enough members to break even(500-600) are probably not found outside of very high end country clubs. The semi private model has some number of members, probably 100-200 but not enough to come even close to breaking even and then needs public play to make up the difference. The members usually want weekend tee times which eats up many of the most lucrative tee times and cost the course valuable public play. The member dollars do help during unusually wet or hot months though. It's a battle, but when you buy on a golf course you expect a course to be there which is why they so often continue operating even at a loss. If the course closes the development of the neighborhood becomes much less lucrative so you really don't have an option from the developers standpoint. As you can see it more of an overdevelopment problem than a golf problem.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 5/19/20 at 6:34 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
That is what I am arguing. Golf sucks in Louisiana. Too many courses.
This isn’t really at all what you’ve been arguing to be honest.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 9:03 pm to Swagga
Then you must not follow many of the “X Louisiana Course” is closing threads in here that pop up every six months or less.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 9:22 pm to lsu13lsu
I’ve been in the golf business for 25 years and right now since the pandemic started, golf has been extremely busy! Every course that didn’t close has had a record spring numbers wise, even while losing the tournament play.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 8:04 am to Deereman9009a
Do you realize the records are driven (in part) because some courses being closed? Right-Sizing the market, briefly.
This post was edited on 5/20/20 at 8:28 am
Posted on 5/20/20 at 11:12 am to lsu13lsu
How is it so hard to grasp that, at least in New Orleans, a reduction of courses could be warranted AND that an iconic, historical, profitable, public course should be kept open?
Stop arguing just to argue, you’re getting no converts.
Stop arguing just to argue, you’re getting no converts.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 11:47 am to BlastOff
A reduction in courses is warranted and it'll be up to economics which ones fold first. Not emotions or sky screamers.
I am just surprised people only realize golf courses are struggling when their neighborhood course is going under. You all should have been supporting this course so actively when it was open.
I am not looking to convert anyone. Since, I have been on this board telling everyone golf in Louisiana as we know it will not work, course after course closes. The evidence is on my side that golf is broken here.
I am just surprised people only realize golf courses are struggling when their neighborhood course is going under. You all should have been supporting this course so actively when it was open.
I am not looking to convert anyone. Since, I have been on this board telling everyone golf in Louisiana as we know it will not work, course after course closes. The evidence is on my side that golf is broken here.
This post was edited on 5/20/20 at 11:50 am
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:03 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
I am not looking to convert anyone. Since, I have been on this board telling everyone golf in Louisiana as we know it will not work, course after course closes. The evidence is on my side that golf is broken here.
Since this began and still is about Audubon, and it has been established that this is not about money for Audubon as it will become more financially burdensome for them to lose the course than keep it, what exactly are you trying to explain to everyone?
Posted on 5/20/20 at 12:26 pm to lsu13lsu
courses are closing nationwide. we experienced a golf boom in the 90's that was directly related to the housing market boom. yes there are too many courses, but it is nationwide, not just Louisiana.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:45 pm to patnuh
quote:
what exactly are you trying to explain to everyone?
Do not be surprised when more courses in Louisiana close even if it is your favorite. What people are essentially saying is other courses in NOLA should close and not this one.
quote:
it has been established that this is not about money for Audubon as it will become more financially burdensome for them to lose the course than keep it,
How can you know that? Do you know what the risk is to run a business versus run greenspace? Running a golf course that loses money like this one is a daily prayer session. Pray they don't lose the greens, pray major equipment doesn't break, pray that the irrigation holds up, pray for no floods or hurricanes, etc... It is tremendously stressful on all involved. It is having 53 employees versus a handful to maybe even none.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 1:48 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
How can you know that?
The Audubon Institute said that in one of the articles posted.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 2:00 pm to patnuh
quote:
The Audubon Institute said that in one of the articles posted.
No they didn't. "pretty much breaks even" doesn't mean there is zero financial risk going forward especially compared to greenspace.
Also, running an unprofitable golf course is a giant headache for a board as compared to greenspace.
This post was edited on 5/20/20 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 5/20/20 at 2:41 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
No they didn't. "pretty much breaks even" doesn't mean there is zero financial risk going forward especially compared to greenspace.
Well, they also said turning it to green space would be more of a financial burden than the golf course is bc that area's maintenance would be absorbed with no offsetting funds. Keep arguing though.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 7:21 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
No they didn't. "pretty much breaks even" doesn't mean there is zero financial risk going forward especially compared to greenspace.
If you think breaking even YOY running a golf course is a bad thing, you are not qualified to speak on the economics of golf anyway. Besides that you're just a dick who can't stand to be wrong every now and again.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:00 am to Zanzibaw
They are not breaking even. And until you have ran a capital intensive business with many employees at a loss then you are not qualified. It sucks. Every single day you are making decisions about whether to pay for chemicals or broken equipment or having restaurant staff cut short for day. It isn't fun and I am not shocked they would consider other options.
Paying $300k to just have greenspace may be welcomed joy to the decision makers.
I like how you all assume to know how business works and everyone else is clueless. Again, everyone in all of these threads, keep telling me I am wrong. Yet course after course is either closing or considering closing in Louisiana since I have been bringing these issues to light.
Paying $300k to just have greenspace may be welcomed joy to the decision makers.
I like how you all assume to know how business works and everyone else is clueless. Again, everyone in all of these threads, keep telling me I am wrong. Yet course after course is either closing or considering closing in Louisiana since I have been bringing these issues to light.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:03 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
Paying $300k to just have greenspace may be welcomed joy to the decision makers.
As opposed to paying 1.5 million or whatever their costs are and breaking even?
For a guy who wants to speak on economics I don’t know many courses that would prefer a 300k loss over breaking even.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:08 am to Swagga
You are guaranteeing that they will always break even? No floods, no hurricanes, no loss of greens, no irrigation failures?
Because the $300k is a near certainty. Businesses have risks. Plus, you are ignoring future capital projects which golf courses always have. Who pays for those when the course doesn't even break even.
Because the $300k is a near certainty. Businesses have risks. Plus, you are ignoring future capital projects which golf courses always have. Who pays for those when the course doesn't even break even.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:11 am to lsu13lsu
FTR, I don't want this course to close. I am just shedding light on the fact that the golf industry in Louisiana is not healthy and all our favorite courses are at risk.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:47 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
You are guaranteeing that they will always break even? No floods, no hurricanes, no loss of greens, no irrigation failures?
All examples of reasons to close a golf course. In that case you know what you could do? Turn it into green space and eat your guaranteed $300k loss. Not to mention that floods, hurricanes and irrigation failures are all still potential problems for manicured green space. Sodding in bunkers and cutting that out of the maintenance budget is a more reasonable plan than closing it and making it a free park with exactly $0 in revenue.
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