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re: Audubon Park Golf - Potential Closure
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:53 am to lsu13lsu
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:53 am to lsu13lsu
If the goal of public park systems is to make money then they all should close. Public park systems all have to be subsidized. The intent is to provide for the general welfare, not to make money. Any revenue that you fo receive is a plus.
If Audubon is close to breaking even it’s a plus. It would be a poor decision to close it if the number of rounds played is steady.
If Audubon is close to breaking even it’s a plus. It would be a poor decision to close it if the number of rounds played is steady.
1
Posted on 5/21/20 at 11:10 am to doubleb
The question in Louisiana, is the general golf welfare already sufficiently covered. That is what Park Systems are asking themselves. Could the space be used for something else and golfers play at one of the other options.
When parks got into golf it was because it wasn't available to everyone. Now there are too many golf courses and hardly any are exclusive.
As an added benefit, they can budget easier and not deal with a giant headache that is a golf course.
When parks got into golf it was because it wasn't available to everyone. Now there are too many golf courses and hardly any are exclusive.
As an added benefit, they can budget easier and not deal with a giant headache that is a golf course.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 11:13 am
Posted on 5/21/20 at 11:16 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
The question in Louisiana, is the general golf welfare already sufficiently covered. That is what Park Systems are asking themselves. Could the space be used for something else and golfers play at one of the other options
Are the numbers down?
Are they breaking even?
Is there a nearby course to take up the slack?
Those are three important questions. What are the answers?
I don’t know, but public golf is more than just dollars and cents.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 11:23 am to doubleb
quote:
Are they breaking even?
They are "pretty much breaking even". But, that is pretty vague. Does that include future capital projects? Is that just this past year?
I asked about numbers but got no response. I don't know answer to that. There are plenty of courses in NOLA that can take up slack. People just want their course open.
Dollars and cents drives everything. Now if there was no other public golf in NOLA then I would agree. But, there is plentiful golf in NOLA for the public. It may not be in your neighborhood.
But, if you want your neighborhood course to be open then you better support it. I have asked many times in this thread, how many people complaining are actual members of the Audubon Institute and buy an Annual Pass. I get no answers.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 11:28 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
Does that include future capital projects?
How many truly public golf courses do you know of doing capital projects? Even at private clubs capital projects are done with assessments so you're not really looking at a bottom line adjustment for them.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 11:46 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
They are "pretty much breaking even
Good
Number of rounds played??? You don’t know.
quote:so there is no other course close by. A good reason to keep Audubon open.
. But, there is plentiful golf in NOLA for the public. It may not be in your neighborhood.
quote:
But, if you want your neighborhood course to be open then you better support it. I have asked many times in this thread, how many people complaining are actual members of the Audubon Institute and buy an Annual Pass. I get no answers.
If they are breaking even then it seems as if the locals are supporting the course.
Btw, I live in EBR, and from what I read all of our public courses lose money. It seems to me that Audubon is doing pretty good.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 12:55 pm to doubleb
quote:
I am just shedding light on the fact that the golf industry in Louisiana is not healthy and all our favorite courses are at risk.
I've already addressed this but LSU just refuses to stop parroting the fact that this somehow has something to do with Louisiana. I understand that Louisiana might be the only area where you have knowledge but its not the the only area where I have knowledge. You are wrong. It is a nationwide issue and if Audubon is close to breaking even they are probably doing better than half the golf courses in the nation. If you want to argue a guaranteed 300k loss(This number would not include converting the course to a green space either)is better than than the opportunity to make or lose a few thousand each year, well that is an argument you can make.
Your argument seems to be Audubon should close for the betterment of the golfing community. No business chooses to close because it benefits another. If they are financially viable they should remain open. I've already addressed why the multitude of courses in Louisiana will not be closing even if they should based on financials.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:08 pm to LSU5508
I would say Alabama and Mississippi are light years ahead of Louisiana in golf. So, my experience is in three states. We are well behind those in even Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
I am not arguing anything. I am just telling you guys don't be surprised if someone is sick and tired of running your favorite course and decides to close it for various reasons. Not just money.
I am not arguing anything. I am just telling you guys don't be surprised if someone is sick and tired of running your favorite course and decides to close it for various reasons. Not just money.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:15 pm to lsu13lsu
Well when are all these golf course closings gonna happen. I'm racking by brain trying to think of courses actually closing or have closed in my area and cant come up with any other than the Island and Bayou Barriere. Talking about closing is not closing. Hell I feel like Sears and Kmart have been talking about closing for 20 years.
Full blown country clubs aint closing
Courses in the middle of residential developments will not be closing even if operating at a loss because the real estate income can easily out pace the losses.
City courses rarely close. Brec hired an expert and was advised to close multiple courses a few years back. Did they? No, Howell and Clark are still operating to my knowledge.
That leaves private courses. There just are not many unless they are tied to casinos or resorts and they will not be closing.
Full blown country clubs aint closing
Courses in the middle of residential developments will not be closing even if operating at a loss because the real estate income can easily out pace the losses.
City courses rarely close. Brec hired an expert and was advised to close multiple courses a few years back. Did they? No, Howell and Clark are still operating to my knowledge.
That leaves private courses. There just are not many unless they are tied to casinos or resorts and they will not be closing.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:26 pm to LSU5508
quote:
City courses rarely close. Brec hired an expert and was advised to close multiple courses a few years back. Did they? No, Howell and Clark are still operating to my knowledge.
You would be wrong. They closed Howell and have plans in the works to close either all or half of Dumas.
Recent closures off the top of my head:
Howell Park
Sherwood
Westside
The Island
Abita Springs Golf Club
Half of one of Pelican Points two courses closed
LSU is still closed. It has been on and off.
BREC plans to close either all or half of Dumas
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:34 pm to lsu13lsu
So maybe 6 courses out of 150-200 statewide courses. I personally would not call the state industry on the verge of collapse. Golf courses do not typically honor the time tested rules of supply and demand because there is uniqueness to them unlike most other industries.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:37 pm to LSU5508
I didn’t list statewide. That is just BR area alone.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:47 pm to lsu13lsu
Shenendoah
Briarwood
Fairwood
I'd love to see them close Dumas/Clark and see them bring in someone to rework it into one really good 18 hole course. Their success with Beaver Creek should encourage them to try and develop some courses on the outerbanks of BR with good conditions. People will travel and play if it's good. But that's a personal preference and not based on economics. In the same sentiment, BREC should really look at buying Sherwood.
Briarwood
Fairwood
I'd love to see them close Dumas/Clark and see them bring in someone to rework it into one really good 18 hole course. Their success with Beaver Creek should encourage them to try and develop some courses on the outerbanks of BR with good conditions. People will travel and play if it's good. But that's a personal preference and not based on economics. In the same sentiment, BREC should really look at buying Sherwood.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 2:09 pm to The Johnny Lawrence
Public options in NOLA (and not across the river) are only Audubon, City Park, and Bartholomew. Of the 3 the times I've played them (and over the years it's been many) Audubon was usually the one packed the most. Lots of older golfers walking since it is short. Love the layout and greens are almost always good. Sure you can cross the river to TPC, Lakewood, and ET but many of the Audubon crowd isn't going to do that.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 2:24 pm to double d
Audubon does so well because it is easy to capture Tulane and Loyola. It’s literally a mile away.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 2:56 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
Howell Park
Sherwood private then semi private
Westside not in EBR
The Island not in EBR
Abita Springs Golf Club not in EBR
Half of one of Pelican Points two courses closed not in EBR
LSU is still closed. It has been on and off. COVID
BREC plans to close either all or half of Dumas PUBLIC EBR
Add Howell EBR
Add Briarwood semi private
Add Shenandoah private
Relatively new courses in EBR
Beaver Creek public
Copper Mill private
Santa Maria public
U Club private
While many have closed others opened. The population of EBR has been relatively flat too. Golf is lagging in popularity and it’s only natural that something had to change.
I’d support BREC going big in Santa Maria, Webb and Beaver Creek. CP, I could go either way. The top three would serve the parish well, but they need to be kept up and maintained well with the savings from closing the others.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:35 pm to doubleb
quote:
I’d support BREC going big in Santa Maria, Webb and Beaver Creek.
I agree. Webb should be a gem. It isn’t.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:39 pm to lsu13lsu
Kind of hilarious to say that Alabama is light years ahead when the RTJ Trail is draining the state’s pension fund. Not defending LA at all but every public “business” sucks balls.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 5:36 pm to 3oliv3
quote:
Kind of hilarious to say that Alabama is light years ahead when the RTJ Trail is draining the state’s pension fund. Not defending LA at all but every public “business” sucks balls.
From top to bottom when I play in Alabama the experience and conditions are far superior. Now financially I cannot say one way or the other. It isn't just RTJ that is nice. I can play Highland in Birmingham and it is as good as any public in BR or better.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 5:43 pm to 3oliv3
quote:
Kind of hilarious to say that Alabama is light years ahead when the RTJ Trail is draining the state’s pension fund.
RTJ Article
I only hear things like this about RTJ Trail. It brings in tons of tourism, it brings in business and corporations, it increases property values, etc. Supposedly it is a huge economic boon.
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