- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Official: Microsoft planning on completely reversing DRM policies
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:07 pm to tom
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:07 pm to tom
quote:
It just won't be significantly improving performance.
Why not? If it means there are less calculations for the APU to do due to some of it being dumped off onto the cloud then wouldn't that theoretically free up the APU to handle tougher tasks including graphics and physics processing?
quote:
Unfortunately I know enough about it to know they are blowing smoke up my arse.
but it will remain marginally useful for the forseeable future.
What are those credentials that qualify you to know this 100% if you would care to share them?
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:07 pm to stout
quote:
Reading tons of Microsoft marketing material and then defending every word, no matter how foolish it makes you look qualifies everyone to be a programmer and network engineer/architect...duh!
FIFY
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:09 pm to tom
quote:
quote: they demoed it at E3 with Forza. They'll include it in most games. It just won't be significantly improving performance.
As someone that has pretty good knowledge of how Forza works, here is what I think will happen with someone that buys that game and doesn't have an internet.
First off, the game disc will have the minimum required game startup i.e. a few tracks, cars and single player format. The rest will be cloud based. No cool paintjobs, no video editing and no use of community features such as the Auction House and Storefront, much less the leaderboards.
For everyone else who dug themselves out of their parents basement...the cloud will gain them access to bigger tracks, more events that change monthly and a much larger collection of cars to customize and trick out as much as they see fit. Complete use of the community features such as Rivals mode, weekly competitions and tournaments/race series.
As someone who will have internet available 24/7 when playing my Xbone with the Kinect camera turned off...I will enjoy that game immensely.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:10 pm to tom
At least I am backing up my claims and theories with reasons why I see it the way I do instead of just saying "it won't work trust me guys I know"
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:11 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:14 pm to stout
Other sites as in gamefly and others I don't know off hand
If gamefly uses steam keys then my mistake
If gamefly uses steam keys then my mistake
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:16 pm to tehchampion140
LIve chat with Adam sessler addres the sess: the Xbox drm and post e3 edition Rev3games
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:45 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:16 pm to Finn
quote:
gamefly
Gamefly sales Steam keys too actually
quote:
and others I don't know off hand
So you just made it all up then?
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:18 pm to stout
No. I've just seen people link pc game deals on here to sites that aren't steam.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:20 pm to Finn
quote:
I've just seen people link pc game deals on here to sites that aren't steam.
Right and as someone that usually links those deals I would say that at least 95% of them are selling game keys that activate on Steam.
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:20 pm to stout
quote:
Why not? If it means there are less calculations for the APU to do due to some of it being dumped off onto the cloud then wouldn't that theoretically free up the APU to handle tougher tasks including graphics and physics processing?
quote:
Latency is going to affect how immediate the computational requests of the cloud can be. When a game needs something processed, it sends a request to a server and waits for the reply. Even assuming instantaneous processing thanks to the power of the servers, the internet is incredibly slow in terms of real-time computing. A request from your console has to find its way through numerous routers and servers until it reaches its destination, and the results have the same labyrinthine journey back. To put this in perspective, when the logic circuits of a CPU want some data, they have to wait a few nanoseconds (billionths of a second) to retrieve it from its cache. If not in cache, the CPU has to wait as much as a few hundred nanoseconds to fetch the data from main RAM - and this is considered bad news for processor efficiency. If the CPU were to ask the cloud to calculate something, the answer won't be available for potentially 100ms or more, depending on internet latency - some 100,000 nanoseconds!
As a game has only 33 milliseconds to render a frame at 30FPS, such long delays mean the cloud cannot be relied upon for real-time, immediate results per frame. If you crash your Forza car into a wall, you don't want to see your vehicle continuing through to the other side of the scenery for the next three or four frames (even longer on those inevitable internet hiccups) until the physics running on the cloud return with the information that you've crashed.
The latency issue is something Microsoft recognises, with Matt Booty saying, "Things that I would call latency-sensitive would be reactions to animations in a shooter, reactions to hits and shots in a racing game, reactions to collisions. Those things you need to have happen immediately and on frame and in sync with your controller. There are some things in a video game world, though, that don't necessarily need to be updated every frame or don't change that much in reaction to what's going on."
With latency an issue, the scope for cloud computation is limited to a subset of game tasks. Okay, we can work with that, but we still have the last great consideration - bandwidth.
quote:
The PS4 memory system allocates around 20,000MB/s for the CPU of its total 176,000MB/s. The cloud can provide one twenty-thousandth of the data to the CPU that the PS4's system memory can. You may have an internet connection that's much better than 8mbps of course, but even superfast fibre-optic broadband at 50mbps equates to an anaemic 6MB/s. This represents a significant bottleneck to what can be processed on the cloud, and that's before upload speed is even considered. Upload speed is a small fraction of download speed, and this will greatly reduce how much information a job can send to the cloud to process. Taking the Forza crash example, if the console has to upload both the car collision mesh and scenery mesh to the cloud for it to calculate whether they have collided or not, that's going to take several seconds.
Of course, we wouldn't send data over the internet without compressing it first. It's through compression that OnLive manages to stream high-definition game video over those same slow internet connections. If OnLive can do it with games, why can't it be done with game data for cloud computing? The main issue here is that video can be compressed with lossy algorithms that throw away large amounts of data that the viewer is insensitive to, producing a video that looks largely like the uncompressed source while needing a fraction of the data. This isn't possible with game data like AI or physics states or models.
What this means is that cloud computing cannot be used for real-time jobs, something Microsoft has admitted.
quote:
For cross-platform titles running on PS4 and PC, there's the question of the economic sense in developing Xbox One specific cloud-based augmentations rather than using the same cross-platform algorithms toned down for the Xbox's less powerful GPU. This places Microsoft in a conundrum - if the cloud is unavailable to its rivals, it is unlikely to be used in third-party games and the Xbox One is unlikely to benefit outside of a few exclusives.
If Microsoft does extend its cloud service to other platforms, it loses the computing advantage claimed for Xbox One. What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software.
LINK
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:36 pm to markasaurus
quote:
LIve chat with Adam sessler
Joined in
Sessler is the man. Have you watched his video yet on how no one should pre-order a console yet
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:39 pm to RTR America
On the 24 hour rule:
"They shifted the blame of having to be online for majority of the time on the games and off of the Xbox"
ETA:
On the Kinect:
"It tells the developers that the option is there. There may not be an option for a lot of hard core gamers right now, but with the option being there that they may find something that clicks"
"They shifted the blame of having to be online for majority of the time on the games and off of the Xbox"
ETA:
On the Kinect:
"It tells the developers that the option is there. There may not be an option for a lot of hard core gamers right now, but with the option being there that they may find something that clicks"
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:43 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:45 pm to Cs
quote:
The main issue here is that video can be compressed with lossy algorithms that throw away large amounts of data that the viewer is insensitive to, producing a video that looks largely like the uncompressed source while needing a fraction of the data. This isn't possible with game data like AI or physics states or models.
What this means is that cloud computing cannot be used for real-time jobs, something Microsoft has admitted.
Right...does this not equal less of a load on the APU since it is still less for it to have to process?
It may not be real time jobs but it's still less work the APU is forced to do and that frees it up to optimize other tasks.
I may have read that wrong as I glanced through it but that's what it seems like to me.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:54 pm to stout
Anybody think a year after initial launch the could offer a different model that stays true to the original DRM policies. This model would come with 4 or so games per-loaded (plantnium/greatest hits) type games.
Just a thought?
Just a thought?
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:02 pm to DieSmilen
quote:
This model would come with 4 or so games per-loaded (plantnium/greatest hits) type games.
Doubt it. It needed to be done across the board to put a dent in the used market otherwise there is no benefit to restrict some people and not others. It would also make the DRM free models very valuable.
I think the answer will be that the digital games will have a lot of extra content for the same price as the physical disc to lure buyers that way so there are less discs out there to be traded in. Of course this will be up to the publishers to offer it. Not Sony and MS.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:02 pm to DieSmilen
Lol no. Look they saw the preorder numbers, they saw the backlash... The damn amazon preorder numbers showed 5% of people ordered or were going to order Xbox one. 5%!! Why would they go back to drm model?
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:09 pm to markasaurus
Smart move considering they were getting slaughtered with bad press.
Popular
Back to top



1





