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Blog post by LaCumbre Brewing's owner on Hazy NE IPA trend
Posted on 10/1/16 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 10/1/16 at 3:46 pm
Was scrolling their website since (hopefully) I'll be at their brewery tomorrow afternoon. This post was back in March. Interesting to read his thoughts.
LINK
I don't know much about the brewing process, so I'd be interested to know the thoughts of the more knowledgeable here. I feel like the cloudy IPAs tend to be a bit "fruitier" or juicier, but what specifically is causing that? The haze? Hop profile? Malt?
quote:
Some would argue that La Cumbre Brewing Co., and the Albuquerque brewing scene as a whole, is at the forefront of IPA brewing, and craft brewing in general. But something that stands out in Albuquerque is a level of clarity and refinement to our IPAs
quote:
Around 2011, the interwebs started becoming abuzz with the amazing hop wizards in the North East. “Really?” I thought to myself. When I left the NE, every IPA I could find was awash in caramel malts, huge bitterness, and very often a healthy dose of diacetyl, and that’s it. That was 2002 though. But low and behold, some were brought back to me and yes… These were stellar examples of the style… Except for one thing. They looked more like a hefeweizen before it is racked from fermenter to bright tank. Some of these beers actually had objects floating in them. Not the most appetizing look in my opinion but hey, if their customers love it, then who am I to judge
quote:
it begs a question; are IPA drinkers in the NE drinking with their eyes and seeing a beer that is murky makes them believe that the beer is more intensely hoppy? Power of suggestion? Or are these brewers really onto something?
I know… get to the point Jeff. Well, for our most recent Project Dank, We have taken inspiration from these brewers and produced a batch of completely unfiltered and unfined IPA that would make all of my brewing professors shake their head in disbelief and disappointment.
LINK
I don't know much about the brewing process, so I'd be interested to know the thoughts of the more knowledgeable here. I feel like the cloudy IPAs tend to be a bit "fruitier" or juicier, but what specifically is causing that? The haze? Hop profile? Malt?
3
Posted on 10/1/16 at 3:58 pm to ragincajun03
People are looking for a juice bomb. They see a beer that looks like juice they are already thinking it's better than others. That's hard to argue from a psychological standpoint I believe.
From personal experience I put Superpower, Pliny, abrasive, sticky hands etc (beers with obvious clarity) side by side with the likes of Haze, Green, Sip and other very cloudy beers I've had.
They're all slightly different in their hop profile and balances between different aspects, but all superior IPAs.
From personal experience I put Superpower, Pliny, abrasive, sticky hands etc (beers with obvious clarity) side by side with the likes of Haze, Green, Sip and other very cloudy beers I've had.
They're all slightly different in their hop profile and balances between different aspects, but all superior IPAs.
Posted on 10/1/16 at 8:23 pm to ragincajun03
The industry consensus is that the cloudiness is caused by dry hopping during active fermentation and some brewers have admitted to adding oats as a means to create pectin haze. Many are bottled or canned before the yeast and whatnot have settled out.
As for flavor, I think filtering and finings do impact hoppy flavors. Moreover, some of these beers are brewed in a week or less. Given that hops tend to fade quickly this quick turnaround really presents the customer with ripe, juicy hop profiles.
As for flavor, I think filtering and finings do impact hoppy flavors. Moreover, some of these beers are brewed in a week or less. Given that hops tend to fade quickly this quick turnaround really presents the customer with ripe, juicy hop profiles.
This post was edited on 10/1/16 at 8:26 pm
Posted on 10/3/16 at 8:53 am to wiltznucs
There's a good number of breweries that dry hop during active fermentation and their IPAs are clear. From my reading and experience, it has more to do with the yeast and hop selection. You want high oil hops and a yeast strain that doesn't flocculate well can throw off some decent esters. Those oils will essentially stick to the yeast and esters instead of flying off into space.
Oats seem to add more to the mouthfeel than appearance, though they help. You can make super cloudy IPAs with 100% pilsner malt. Some brewers will also add wheat, and some have even admitted to using straight up flour to boost the cloudiness.
Seems on all the beer podcasts I listen to that some brewers and consumers get way too jacked out of shape about cloudy IPAs and they hate the term "juicy." I say drink what you like and don't worry about it. I prefer bright, drier American IPAs with a pronounced bitterness and less yeast-derived flavors, but I'm an equal-opportunity beer lover and definitely enjoy the cloudy ones, too. Seems the downside to cloudy IPAs is their short shelf life, though they don't seem to sit on the shelf long enough for that to be a problem.
Oats seem to add more to the mouthfeel than appearance, though they help. You can make super cloudy IPAs with 100% pilsner malt. Some brewers will also add wheat, and some have even admitted to using straight up flour to boost the cloudiness.
Seems on all the beer podcasts I listen to that some brewers and consumers get way too jacked out of shape about cloudy IPAs and they hate the term "juicy." I say drink what you like and don't worry about it. I prefer bright, drier American IPAs with a pronounced bitterness and less yeast-derived flavors, but I'm an equal-opportunity beer lover and definitely enjoy the cloudy ones, too. Seems the downside to cloudy IPAs is their short shelf life, though they don't seem to sit on the shelf long enough for that to be a problem.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 8:58 am to ragincajun03
quote:
it begs a question; are IPA drinkers in the NE drinking with their eyes and seeing a beer that is murky makes them believe that the beer is more intensely hoppy? Power of suggestion? Or are these brewers really onto something?
All I know is, when I drink the beers here in NE, it makes me happy. I don't need all them fancy explanations as to why.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 9:10 am to thegreatboudini
I anxiously await BugAC's peer-reviewed article on this topic.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 9:23 am to BottomlandBrew
quote:
From my reading and experience, it has more to do with the yeast and hop selection. You want high oil hops and a yeast strain that doesn't flocculate well can throw off some decent esters. Those oils will essentially stick to the yeast and esters instead of flying off into space.
All this...
and the mineral content of the water they use.
need to get me some of that anti-space yeast on my next order...
Posted on 10/3/16 at 12:03 pm to BottomlandBrew
Thanks for the insight. Hoping Bug and BMoney chime in. They seem to be knowledgeable as well.
This post was edited on 10/3/16 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 10/3/16 at 12:05 pm to LSUGrad00
quote:
anti-space yeast
WLP420. Super cloudy.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 12:10 pm to Rouge
quote:
I anxiously await BugAC's peer-reviewed article on this topic.
What do you want to know...
Posted on 10/3/16 at 12:18 pm to ragincajun03
quote:
Thanks for the insight. Hoping Bug and BMoney chime in. They seem to be knowledgeable as well.
Bottomland and grad nailed it. The oils tend to cling to the yeast cells during active fermentation preventing some of the yeast to completely flocculate (drop out of suspesion). Also, flaked oats/flaked wheat, etc.. are used in some recipes to give it more mouthfeel and also increase the haze. I've heard of rumors of brewers throwing in baking flour into the mash, but it's only been rumors. A handful of guys on the brewingnetwork sunday session podcast seem to think this is what producers of all hazy IPA's do, and bash on them pretty hard. However, they generalize based on 1 or 2 beers of the style they've tried.
I've never heard of a professional brewer adding flour to their beer, and that seems more of an exaggeration than what is done in actuality.
My personal opinions on it, or that i like both hazy and non-hazy IPA's. The filtration of the beer isn't going to make a bad beer better or worse. It's in the technique.
As a homebrewer, it's pretty interesting as the hazy/juicy IPA techniques are relatively new and there are many new publications and papers on achieving the optimum hop flavors. It's sort of like the constant new information on sour/brett beers and what promotes certain flavors, acidity, etc...
Posted on 10/3/16 at 1:34 pm to BugAC
From my experience, your typical NW IPA is generally clearer, and more dank than the NE IPAs. The cloudy juice bombs get a lot of criticism up here for not being true to the style, which I think is just silly. It doesn't make one style better than the other, it just makes them different.
I like to mix them up, and thankfully, more brewers up here are starting to brew the juicy NE style beers, so we can have both.
Block 15 has one out right now, called Fluffhead, that you have probably seen me posting on the FBD threads. I've also been drinking a lot of fresh hop beers that have been mostly traditional NW style, as well. Variety is the spice of life, and that goes for beer, too, IMO.
Beer is good...
I like to mix them up, and thankfully, more brewers up here are starting to brew the juicy NE style beers, so we can have both.
Block 15 has one out right now, called Fluffhead, that you have probably seen me posting on the FBD threads. I've also been drinking a lot of fresh hop beers that have been mostly traditional NW style, as well. Variety is the spice of life, and that goes for beer, too, IMO.
Beer is good...
Posted on 10/3/16 at 1:44 pm to Jax-Tiger
Seems like the beer people are finding out what whisky fans have know for years. The filtering process before the beer is canned strips some of the hoppyness and hop oils from the beer. The same is true with whisky which most are chilled filtered before bottling stripping away oils and flavors from the finished product. In both cases the beverage is filtered to give it an appealing appearance just cosmetic.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 2:12 pm to golfntiger32
quote:
Seems like the beer people are finding out what whisky fans have know for years. The filtering process before the beer is canned strips some of the hoppyness and hop oils from the beer. The same is true with whisky which most are chilled filtered before bottling stripping away oils and flavors from the finished product. In both cases the beverage is filtered to give it an appealing appearance just cosmetic.
I don't filter my ipas at home and have never made a cloudy NE IPA. Many professional breweries do not filter their beers either. Beer, for the most part, naturally clears up. You have to actually work to get it as hazy as the NE IPAs.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 2:58 pm to Fratastic423
quote:
You have to actually work to get it as hazy as the NE IPAs.
mine is clearing up after two months in the keg. It is noticeably clearer than it was at kegging. Still tastes good though.
Posted on 10/3/16 at 6:33 pm to BottomlandBrew
quote:
Seems the downside to cloudy IPAs is their short shelf life, though they don't seem to sit on the shelf long enough for that to be a problem.
That hasn't really been my experience, fwiw. I'm hardly an expert, but I've had some that were older than what I would normally drink and I was pleasantly surprised.
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