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Moderna's problems with mRNA (2017 article)
Posted on 10/14/21 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 10/14/21 at 10:40 pm
I'm not posting the full text, but enjoy these snips:
Lavishly funded Moderna hits safety problems in bold bid to revolutionize medicine
Moderna Therapeutics, the most highly valued private company in biotech, has run into troubling safety problems with its most ambitious therapy, STAT has learned — and is now banking on a mysterious new technology to keep afloat its brash promise of reinventing modern medicine
It never proved safe enough to test in humans, according to several former Moderna employees and collaborators who worked closely on the project. Unable to press forward with that technology, Moderna has had to focus instead on developing a handful of vaccines, turning to a less lucrative field that might not justify the company’s nearly $5 billion valuation.
“It’s all vaccines right now, and vaccines are a loss-leader,” said one former Moderna manager. “Moderna right now is a multibillion-dollar vaccines company, and I don’t see how that holds up.”
The company’s premise: Using custom-built strands of messenger RNA, known as mRNA, it aims to turn the body’s cells into ad hoc drug factories, compelling them to produce the proteins needed to treat a wide variety of diseases.
But mRNA is a tricky technology. Several major pharmaceutical companies have tried and abandoned the idea, struggling to get mRNA into cells without triggering nasty side effects.
He describes mRNA as a simple way to develop treatments for scores of ailments. As he told STAT over the summer, “mRNA is like software: You can just turn the crank and get a lot of products going into development.”
It seems clear, however, that the software has run into bugs.
In Moderna’s eyes, the one-in-million disease looked like an ideal candidate for mRNA therapy. The company crafted a string of mRNA that would encode for the missing enzyme, believing it had hit upon an excellent starting point to prove technology could be used to treat rare diseases.
But things gradually came apart last year.
Every drug has what’s called a therapeutic window, the scientific sweet spot where a treatment is powerful enough to have an effect on a disease but not so strong as to put patients at too much risk. For mRNA, that has proved elusive.
In order to protect mRNA molecules from the body’s natural defenses, drug developers must wrap them in a protective casing. For Moderna, that meant putting its Crigler-Najjar therapy in nanoparticles made of lipids. And for its chemists, those nanoparticles created a daunting challenge: Dose too little, and you don’t get enough enzyme to affect the disease; dose too much, and the drug is too toxic for patients
Yet Moderna could not make its therapy work, former employees and collaborators said. The safe dose was too weak, and repeat injections of a dose strong enough to be effective had troubling effects on the liver in animal studies.
LINK
Lavishly funded Moderna hits safety problems in bold bid to revolutionize medicine
Moderna Therapeutics, the most highly valued private company in biotech, has run into troubling safety problems with its most ambitious therapy, STAT has learned — and is now banking on a mysterious new technology to keep afloat its brash promise of reinventing modern medicine
It never proved safe enough to test in humans, according to several former Moderna employees and collaborators who worked closely on the project. Unable to press forward with that technology, Moderna has had to focus instead on developing a handful of vaccines, turning to a less lucrative field that might not justify the company’s nearly $5 billion valuation.
“It’s all vaccines right now, and vaccines are a loss-leader,” said one former Moderna manager. “Moderna right now is a multibillion-dollar vaccines company, and I don’t see how that holds up.”
The company’s premise: Using custom-built strands of messenger RNA, known as mRNA, it aims to turn the body’s cells into ad hoc drug factories, compelling them to produce the proteins needed to treat a wide variety of diseases.
But mRNA is a tricky technology. Several major pharmaceutical companies have tried and abandoned the idea, struggling to get mRNA into cells without triggering nasty side effects.
He describes mRNA as a simple way to develop treatments for scores of ailments. As he told STAT over the summer, “mRNA is like software: You can just turn the crank and get a lot of products going into development.”
It seems clear, however, that the software has run into bugs.
In Moderna’s eyes, the one-in-million disease looked like an ideal candidate for mRNA therapy. The company crafted a string of mRNA that would encode for the missing enzyme, believing it had hit upon an excellent starting point to prove technology could be used to treat rare diseases.
But things gradually came apart last year.
Every drug has what’s called a therapeutic window, the scientific sweet spot where a treatment is powerful enough to have an effect on a disease but not so strong as to put patients at too much risk. For mRNA, that has proved elusive.
In order to protect mRNA molecules from the body’s natural defenses, drug developers must wrap them in a protective casing. For Moderna, that meant putting its Crigler-Najjar therapy in nanoparticles made of lipids. And for its chemists, those nanoparticles created a daunting challenge: Dose too little, and you don’t get enough enzyme to affect the disease; dose too much, and the drug is too toxic for patients
Yet Moderna could not make its therapy work, former employees and collaborators said. The safe dose was too weak, and repeat injections of a dose strong enough to be effective had troubling effects on the liver in animal studies.
LINK
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:31 am to Smeg
The resident epidemiologists have assured us that the MRNA technology has been around for years and years.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:51 am to the808bass
quote:
The resident epidemiologists have assured us that the MRNA technology has been around for years and years.
mrna tech absolutely has been around for decades theres plenty of records data and studies, lmao thats not really up for debate
the report even mentions animal studies of mRNA which were taking place over 5 years ago so yes its been tested for years.
also the article is about issues using mrna for crieglar najar which is an inborn enzyme deficiency, that would require long term dosing, which is obviously a much different application and problem altogether than inciting an immune response. apparently facts/context escape laymen.
it seems like their issue was tinkering with the liposomal delivery system for the purpose of treating inborn enzyme deficiency, not the mRNA itself.
This post was edited on 10/15/21 at 2:00 am
Posted on 10/15/21 at 5:21 am to AMS
quote:and never approved
mrna tech absolutely has been around for decades
weird
Posted on 10/15/21 at 5:56 am to AMS
Straight from the fricking CDC website
quote:
Information about mRNA vaccines generally and COVID-19 vaccines that use this new technology specifically
Posted on 10/15/21 at 6:04 am to AMS
quote:
mrna tech absolutely has been around for decades theres plenty of records data and studies
But how many FDA approved drugs are based on the mRNA tech and have plenty of records and studies?
Posted on 10/15/21 at 7:00 am to wileyjones
quote:Well, that's not quite true is it?
and never approved
Posted on 10/15/21 at 7:04 am to AMS
quote:
mrna tech absolutely has been around for decades
You have responded exactly as expected. Collect your attaboy points.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 7:15 am to the808bass
quote:IIRC, the first Lipid Encapsulated RNA therapy was FDA approved 3-4yrs ago.
You have responded exactly as expected. Collect your attaboy points.
The OP sounds ominous, but in reality is unrelated to vaccine production.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 7:58 am to AMS
quote:
mrna tech absolutely has been around for decades theres plenty of records data and studies, lmao thats not really up for debate
Sure it’s been around for decades, but you just completely glossed over the biggest issue with the tech… how to safely and effectively get the foreign mRNA into the cell for replication without the body’s natural defenses destroying it. As the article states, too small of a dose and it’s ineffective, and too large of a dose and it’s toxic… with hundreds of millions of doses given world wide, there is in all likelihood millions of vaccinated people currently under the false impression that they are protected when in reality they aren’t.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 8:10 am to the808bass
quote:
The resident epidemiologists have assured us that the MRNA technology has been around for years and years.
although this is true...its never passed animal trials...they seem to say frick it lets jab the people now even though it doesnt pass animal test
Posted on 10/15/21 at 9:08 am to TigerStripes30
quote:
its never passed animal trials.
It is important to say why it didn't pass animal trials. It was because the animals all died when exposed to the disease it was supposed to protect against.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:04 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
but you just completely glossed over the biggest issue with the tech… how to safely and effectively get the foreign mRNA into the cell for replication without the body’s natural defenses destroying it.
no I addressed that. ill repeat what I said since you must have glossed over that part, they had issues tinkering with the liposomal delivery not mrna itself.
quote:
too small of a dose and it’s ineffective, and too large of a dose and it’s toxic
"duh", that is the same with any substance.
quote:
with hundreds of millions of doses given world wide, there is in all likelihood millions of vaccinated people currently under the false impression that they are protected when in reality they aren’t.
at least you can admit it IS protective, albeit not 100% magic. you do realize there are people who are non-responders to more traditional vaccines we have? I wasnt even making my post about the covid vaccine just clearing up gross factual inaccuracies from 808
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:10 pm to AMS
quote:
, that would require long term dosing
Hmmm booster shots for the rest of your life….
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You have responded exactly as expected. Collect your attaboy points.
IIRC, the first Lipid Encapsulated RNA therapy was FDA approved 3-4yrs ago.
The OP sounds ominous, but in reality is unrelated to vaccine production.
congrats collect your atta boy points for bringing facts instead of feelings.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:18 pm to bayoudude
quote:
Hmmm booster shots for the rest of your life….
long term dosing as in the need for continuous mrna delivery. also if you get natural immunity you dont need boosters. and covid wont be the rest of your life. you can be dramatic or you can assess facts. the article is about something very different than inciting an immune response but again facts/context escape the layman
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:19 pm to AMS
quote:Not currently.
also if you get natural immunity you dont need boosters
Posted on 10/15/21 at 12:59 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
Sure it’s been around for decades, but you just completely glossed over the biggest issue with the tech… how to safely and effectively get the foreign mRNA into the cell for replication without the body’s natural defenses destroying it.
The actual issue is how safe is it to get THIS mRNA into the cell. It's not so much about the how as it is about the what.
Let's just say that if the end goal was to get the spike protein into people via a virus and the virus turned out to not be as infectious as hoped, an even better approach would be to cajole, persuade, coerce, or force everyone into taking an injection of the shite.
Posted on 10/15/21 at 1:35 pm to Jbird
quote:
Not currently.
you realize only high risk demographics are indicated for a booster...
Posted on 10/15/21 at 1:38 pm to AMS
quote:Soon everyone will.
you realize only high risk demographics are indicated for a booster...
Also next month we can mandate chirren getting the jab.
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