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re: On this day 158 years ago, Vicksburg surrendered to Union forces (July 4, 1863)
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:35 am to RougeDawg
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:35 am to RougeDawg
quote:
Follow that up with a flanking maneuver on I-495 and the Civil War is over.
Yeah and they could have taken the Metro once they got close enough to sneak around the Union guns.
0
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:12 am to RollTide1987
My great grandfather was there.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:41 am to ElderTiger
Pemberton was an idiot. He failed to lay in supplies to prepare for a siege. He failed to evacuate his non combatants. Johnston wasn't much better. He should have harassed Grants supply lines only and not fought a pitched battle until and unless he had the forces to do so.
Grant might never have broken those works. He was having zero luck in trying it and even he couldn't stay there forever. Sooner or later he was going to have to strike a big blow and he could have broken his army doing it had Pemberton only been smarter.
Grant might never have broken those works. He was having zero luck in trying it and even he couldn't stay there forever. Sooner or later he was going to have to strike a big blow and he could have broken his army doing it had Pemberton only been smarter.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:48 am to jeffsdad
quote:
Odd to me that Gettysburg is during that time period of the war. I always put it during the last days of the war.
Back to back days. The Battle of Gettysburg ended in July 3rd, and the Siege of Vicksburg ended in July 4th
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:55 am to antibarner
Johnston didn’t reinforce Pemberton when asked repeatedly to do so. Johnston always kinda just did what he wanted and blatantly ignored orders from his superiors multiple times. It was really more of an issue of lack of centralization of power in the confederacy. It was too decentralized and all of the top generals were Virginians who only looked out for Virginia.
This post was edited on 7/4/21 at 11:56 am
Posted on 7/4/21 at 12:07 pm to RollTide1987
The cannons sitting on the Vicksburg bluffs were useless because of a simple but critical strategic blunder.
The cannons on the bluffs were positioned where the volleys simply went harmlessly over the Union ships on the Miss River.
Had the cannons been positioned better, the Union ships would have ripped to shreds.
Vicksburg may have been saved and the war probably would have dragged on, George McClennan may have defeated Lincoln is the 1864 presidential election.
The cannons on the bluffs were positioned where the volleys simply went harmlessly over the Union ships on the Miss River.
Had the cannons been positioned better, the Union ships would have ripped to shreds.
Vicksburg may have been saved and the war probably would have dragged on, George McClennan may have defeated Lincoln is the 1864 presidential election.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 12:14 pm to Reubaltaich
Nothing was going to stop General Grant aka tGOAT. He had made several attempts at Vicksburg before finally achieving success. The Gibraltar of the west was going to fall one way or another.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 12:25 pm to Burt Reynolds
quote:I've heard , Only asked why they didn't take these American hating Southerners. It only seems okay when some question Independence day, but not others.
The confederates created colonies in Brazil that still exist to this day.
Many Southerners seemed to hate July 4th once , but now overcompensate out of guilt from their treasonous past.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 12:37 pm to RGJ18
quote:
Who knew that 158 years later, idiots would still be flying the loser Confederate flag.
Screw you a-hole- the wrong side lost! The war was fought over state rights, slaverly was a secondary issue. Even if the South would have won, slavery would have ended withing 10-15 years regardless.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 4:37 pm to Tiger in Texas
quote:
Screw you a-hole- the wrong side lost! The war was fought over state rights, slaverly was a secondary issue. Even if the South would have won, slavery would have ended withing 10-15 years regardless.
I did not mention slavery at all in my post. They lost. Loser flag.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 4:54 pm to whiskey over ice
quote:
Mississippi in last place for 158 years and counting
I mean they are celebrating a national championship in baseball so…
Posted on 7/4/21 at 4:57 pm to RGJ18
quote:
Who knew that 158 years later, idiots would still be flying the loser Confederate flag.
If the men tho fought against that confederate flag 158 years ago could see the country today, they’d have switched sides.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 5:06 pm to PJinAtl
quote:"What to the Slave IS the Fourth of July"? A question simply asked by Douglass & pondered upon by Kaepernick.
82 or 83 years. I think it wasn't celebrated at all until the end of WW2 (either '45 or '46). No fireworks, no businesses closed (not even banks and post offices).
I can't imagine refusing to celebrate the 4th of July.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 5:31 pm to RollTide1987
Gettysburg and Vicksburg, beginning on the end.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 6:40 pm to usmcnav
quote:
I had 3 gggrandfathers who fought at Vicksburg. All with Mississippi units
I had 1 at Vicksburg also.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 6:51 pm to sugar71
quote:
treasonous past.
Idiot has never learned that not one soldier was convicted of treason.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 6:59 pm to Tiger in Texas
quote:
The war was fought over state rights,
Was there a certain right that was under attack? Surely something in particular, right? No way they would start a war over muh states rights without being prompted by something in particular.
This post was edited on 7/4/21 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 7/4/21 at 7:20 pm to RollTide1987
The infatuation of the confederacy by poor, white southerners is the dumbest thing possible. This was nothing but a "rich man's" war with the average southerner gaining nothing, but suffering. The ruling class, needing cheap labor for agricultural purposes, sent poor southerners to die. Slavery, driving down the prevailing wage, was actually bad for the average person economically speaking, yet the poors where used as chattel to fight a war against their own best interests.
Yes I realize most wars are "rich man" wars and the poor are sent to die, but in this case those dying were actually supporting a cause that was against their best interests.
Yes I realize most wars are "rich man" wars and the poor are sent to die, but in this case those dying were actually supporting a cause that was against their best interests.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 7:37 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
Too bad they were fighting to preserve slavery
It's not why they were fighting...nowhere in any war speech or any diary did a grunt say "I'm fight to keep my slaves"
But slavery has a large part to do with why the Democrats went to war. Democrats love slavery.
Posted on 7/4/21 at 7:37 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
This victory gave Union forces unfettered access to the whole of the Mississippi River, effectively cutting the Confederacy in two. No longer could Texas, Arkansas, and Confederate-controlled Louisiana and Missouri send supplies and men to other parts of the Confederacy.
Not so fast my friend... Port Hudson was the last to fall on the Miss River. It was said that when Vicksburg fell Grant had the troops to through everything in the river so the forces holding out at Port Hudson would get demoralized and surrender. They did surrender on July 9th ending the longest siege in US Military history at the time - Khe Sahn exceeded it in the Vietnam War.
Port Hudson was a stronghold on the Miss River north of Baton Rouge that had a large gun battery in a hairpin turn on the river and up on a bluff giving the Confederates considerable leverage on anything travelling on the river.
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/civil-war/battles/port-hudson
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