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Message
re: Judge backs Houston hospitals decision to fire people without vaccine
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:07 pm to dartman
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:07 pm to dartman
quote:
If the hospital is strictly private, that's their business
I totally disagree that your boss can tell you what health decisions you have to make.
We're not talking about "you have to be able to wear the uniform" (Hooters) or "I don't want to pay for that service with our provided health insurance" (Hobby Lobby) here. We're talking about "you have to inject drugs into your body" here. No one should have the right to tell you you must do that.
0
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:08 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
So we're back on it's just the flu? Fine.
No. It’s not “the flu.” Are you too retarded to distinguish between the delta in between the flu and Ebola?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:08 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
Can they force all women to take birth control?
Can they require all men to have vasectomies?
Can they fire you for catching an STD?
How about if you refuse to take chemo for cancer? Can they get rid of you then?
Why not allow companies to require all employees take Adderall? Private businesses can do whatever they want, right?
They probably can't do the first two because it's probably sex discrimination and afoul of the Civil Rights Act of 64.
They can definitely fire you for an STD, though I'd be curious how they'd come to find out
They can definitely fire you for refusing chemo. Though that would be really bad publicity, also a weird use of power, and against financial interets.
Adderall requires a prescription, so there would be an issue there. But they could require ginseng if they wanted to.
quote:
The contract between an employer and employee should be nothing more than doing the job you're paid to do and don't actively ruin the company's reputation.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:09 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
Biden said they wouldn’t be mandatory.
Wow. Fancy that. Another lie told by a corrupt career politician.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:10 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
If you don’t want to have a nuanced discussion then just say so, no need to get angry. You’ve been really on edge lately
It’s not a nuanced discussion. It’s a battle of narratives and IDGAF about narratives.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:10 pm to the808bass
quote:
Are you too retarded to distinguish between the delta in between the flu and Ebola?
Are so retarded as to think that Ebola is the only other option for comparison?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:12 pm to DesScorp
quote:
Muh Free Market: Liberty for corporations to do whatever the F#^% they want and demand YOU do it, or your livlihood gets taken away
Not saying it's a good thing, just that it was a less government ruling.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:12 pm to longwayfromLA
It’s the comparison I made to which you responded “are you pretending this is the flu?”
I’m not the one having difficulty following the conversation here.
I’m not the one having difficulty following the conversation here.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:12 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Yes, and many hospitals/healthcare entities now require their employees not smoke as a condition of employment. One of the facilities I see patients at even tests for metabolites of nicotine as part of their employee drug screen process.
The argument is that smokers dramatically increase the healthcare premium that these groups pay. I get it. And I had heard it was for new hires.
quote:
If they wanted to yes, though I’m not sure of the practical reasons why they would.
One could say that vegetarians tend to live longer than people who eat meat and the such and have a lower rate of obesity and the such. One could make the point it would decrease the cost of their healthcare.
quote:
With respect to private hospitals in the state of Texas (an at will state), they can fire employees for any reason as long as the reason isn’t in violation of federal discrimination law as defined by the various protected classes. The only caveat would be if they tried to fire an employee with a documented medial contraindication to getting the vaccine, as this could be a violation of the ADA. Other than that though, the court is correct in its ruling and the employees who don’t get it could largely be SOL. They’re welcome to find work elsewhere or get the vaccine.
And I agree with this. However as far as vaccines go, the fact isn't fully approved yet I thought might have been an issue.
If the law states that employers can make just about anything mandatory, I guess it doesn't matter.
I have further found out the law signed by Abbot applies to customers not employees.
Well, I guess you learn something new every day.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:13 pm to thetempleowl
I predict what you are gong to find out eventually is the vaccines are proven to have some positive effects on preventing or mitigating symptons after exposure but they are proven to have very little effect as a prophylactic.
Then you are going to realize that the vaccines are basically preventative placebos.
After that you are going to come to the realization that the previous iterations of RNA vaccines werent approved because they showed promise against the specific virus they are made for but cause the immune system to go completely haywire when the patient is exposed to other virus strains
Finally you will come to grips that you voluntarily exposed yourself to an expermental vaccine for a pretty mild virus and unfortunately opened the door to potential catastrophe down the road for basically nothing
the keyword in EUA is emergency, not Use Or Authorization. You and many others have been brainwashed into thinking this situation is a unilateral Emergency for all of Humanity when it is not. So you justify Emergency measures for what is really a Non-emergency situation.
there will be many like you facing this dilemna, Godspeed
Then you are going to realize that the vaccines are basically preventative placebos.
After that you are going to come to the realization that the previous iterations of RNA vaccines werent approved because they showed promise against the specific virus they are made for but cause the immune system to go completely haywire when the patient is exposed to other virus strains
Finally you will come to grips that you voluntarily exposed yourself to an expermental vaccine for a pretty mild virus and unfortunately opened the door to potential catastrophe down the road for basically nothing
the keyword in EUA is emergency, not Use Or Authorization. You and many others have been brainwashed into thinking this situation is a unilateral Emergency for all of Humanity when it is not. So you justify Emergency measures for what is really a Non-emergency situation.
there will be many like you facing this dilemna, Godspeed
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:14 pm to tduecen
quote:
170 here, 150 there, it all eventually adds up and even though the system has 20k people now you are asking those individuals to do the work of the 170 you fired until you hire new employees.
The system has opening for over 2000 positions currently, not counting these 170.
These 170 will not move the needle.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:14 pm to the808bass
quote:
It’s the comparison I made to which you responded “are you pretending this is the flu?”
I’m not the one having difficulty following the conversation here.
Yes. You randomly brought up Ebola as if that were the only comparison that could be made. That was quite retarded of you.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:14 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
just that it was a less government ruling.
That effectively reduces freedom for the individual.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:15 pm to longwayfromLA
Cool.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:17 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
1 in 5 million? That weighs 1000 times in favor of getting the vaccine.
You are only looking at it in the vacuum of dying and ignoring possible long term consequences that could come from the vaccine that we don’t know about yet. If you are young and healthy the risk/reward profile is uncertain
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:19 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
See my first post on page 3
Given that this is the correct ruling, legally speaking, any other ruling would represent judicial activism by definition.
I have read all your posts. Thank you.
I realize that employers have made lots of things mandatory to be employed. From vaccines to not smoking.
I just wasn't sure if the eua had any standing.
It would seem that it doesn't. If you don't want to work there, don't work there. And thus I suppose any condition would work.
They could make them all vegetarians. It would limit the number of employees. But they could do it.
Thank you for explaining that.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:20 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
Right. As a result of diminishing cases and deaths which are themselves the result of the vaccines. Absent the vaccine, things would look very different. I have no idea why this obvious fact is so controversial.
nope
the economy was paused, trump was defeated, mission accomplished but Florida created the perfect example for a managed and reasonable response versus prolonged hysteria and authoritarianism
michigan is still locked down and citizens are rallying to recall the governor, Florida has been open and their economy is booming
reality has set in for our overlords, the vaccine narrative is just a reasonable justification for undoing what never should have been done
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:24 pm to the808bass
quote:
It’s not a nuanced discussion. It’s a battle of narratives and IDGAF about narratives.
for people with mild infections or asymptomatic infections, most would suggest they get the vaccine. For moderate to severe infections the immune response is good.
For those who die from covid, I don't see a need to vaccinate.
If you consider that too nuanced, well we can't help you.
If it is a battle of narratives, don't you want facts on your side?
And these are the facts.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:24 pm to bamarep
quote:
Why are we vaccinating against something with a 99.9% survival rate.
Average death rate pre CoVid was 78.8
Average death of CoVid patients is 78.4.
This is stupid to even debate.
Because it's not about prevention. It's all about control.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:37 pm to supatigah
quote:
I predict what you are gong to find out eventually is the vaccines are proven to have some positive effects on preventing or mitigating symptons after exposure but they are proven to have very little effect as a prophylactic.
Uhh, how can you make such a ridiculous statement. We have evidence that they prevent infections in a very high percentage of the time.
quote:
Then you are going to realize that the vaccines are basically preventative placebos.
I am literally stunned that someone would state something so assuredly when it is absolutely incorrect.
I mean hell, even the crappy chinese vaccine helps some in this manner. You are 100 percent incorrect on that statement.
quote:
After that you are going to come to the realization that the previous iterations of RNA vaccines werent approved because they showed promise against the specific virus they are made for but cause the immune system to go completely haywire when the patient is exposed to other virus strains
WTF?
This makes no sense.
quote:
Finally you will come to grips that you voluntarily exposed yourself to an expermental vaccine for a pretty mild virus and unfortunately opened the door to potential catastrophe down the road for basically nothing
Wrong.
quote:
the keyword in EUA is emergency, not Use Or Authorization. You and many others have been brainwashed into thinking this situation is a unilateral Emergency for all of Humanity when it is not. So you justify Emergency measures for what is really a Non-emergency situation.
Wow. I am at a loss.
For many the mortality was over 10 percent. Granted they are older, but still, that is signficant.
The mrna vaccines have been around for years. Moderna has been around for a decade. Darpa gave them a bunch of money to work on this back in 2013. This is not new technology.
I am someone stunned by the amount of things you got wrong here.
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