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Started By
Message
H.P.D. K9 Units in HEB Parking lot - Legal?
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:32 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:32 pm
This afternoon, as I'm leaving HEB in Houston, I see a guy walking a vested German SHepard in the parking lot. My first thought was that it was a support animal and a blind guy. But as I got closer to my car, I realized it has a HPD officer, decked out in his dark tactical glasses, walking a K9 dog around the parking lot in between all the cars. He was slowly making his way down the row of cars. I watched him walk to the end of one aisle, move to another row, and do the same. His marked unit was at the far end of the parking lot, no lights flashing or anything like that. There was no urgency in anything he was doing, didn't really seem to be looking for anything specific, like a particular car or anything at all like that.
What is a plausible explanation for that? Isn't it illegal to just walk through a public parking lot randomly sniffing out parked cars for illegal substances? That's all I can figure he was doing. Doesn't the Constitution require probable cause to conduct a search? Am I wrong in thinking that qualifies as a "search?"
I have nothing to hide as I haven't had an illegal substance in my car in over 20 years but this really bothers me. I wasn't about to ask him about it as I try to limit any interaction with a police officer but I can't let it go in my mind.
What reason could he have had to be policing a public parking lot with a K9? Could it be sanctioned or requested by HEB? I wouldn't think so. How is this different than searching everyone walking out the door for a sack of weed in their pocket? Help me make some sense of this.
What is a plausible explanation for that? Isn't it illegal to just walk through a public parking lot randomly sniffing out parked cars for illegal substances? That's all I can figure he was doing. Doesn't the Constitution require probable cause to conduct a search? Am I wrong in thinking that qualifies as a "search?"
I have nothing to hide as I haven't had an illegal substance in my car in over 20 years but this really bothers me. I wasn't about to ask him about it as I try to limit any interaction with a police officer but I can't let it go in my mind.
What reason could he have had to be policing a public parking lot with a K9? Could it be sanctioned or requested by HEB? I wouldn't think so. How is this different than searching everyone walking out the door for a sack of weed in their pocket? Help me make some sense of this.
21
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:33 pm to supadave3
This post sounds like weed paranoia
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:35 pm to supadave3
I doubt it was sniffing for weed. Could have been looking for a missing person or investigating a bomb threat. Many K-9's aren't even trained to sniff marijuana anymore.
ON the otherhand, all it takes is a complaint from an employee or customer that someone was smoking weed in the parking lot and they can smell it. HPD gone come find it.
ON the otherhand, all it takes is a complaint from an employee or customer that someone was smoking weed in the parking lot and they can smell it. HPD gone come find it.
This post was edited on 2/3/21 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:38 pm to supadave3
I would think that....
He cannot purposely go “sniff” random vehicles.
He can take his dog for a walk / parking lot patrol, as part of his normal duties.
If the dog “hits’ on a vehicle, then he has probable causes.
He needs to show that he does this routinely.
His intent cannot be to find drugs as the purpose of the walk, without a complaint to investigate.
He cannot purposely go “sniff” random vehicles.
He can take his dog for a walk / parking lot patrol, as part of his normal duties.
If the dog “hits’ on a vehicle, then he has probable causes.
He needs to show that he does this routinely.
His intent cannot be to find drugs as the purpose of the walk, without a complaint to investigate.
This post was edited on 2/3/21 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:43 pm to supadave3
quote:
Isn't it illegal to just walk through a public parking lot randomly sniffing out parked cars for illegal substances?
Nope. It’s a public place and the expectation of privacy is minima.
For all you know he’s just walking his dog, which happens to be a police dog. It could also not be a drug dog (bite/bomb etc).
quote:
Doesn't the Constitution require probable cause to conduct a search?
It’s an “open air sniff,” not a search. The positive indication from the dog can lead to a search.
quote:
Am I wrong in thinking that qualifies as a "search?"
Yes
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:45 pm to brass2mouth
Found the POS cop
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:48 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
It’s a public place
No, it’s not.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:48 pm to brass2mouth
Bull. That is a complete violation of the fourth amendment. It is an unreasonable search. Just like they can’t pull you over randomly and have a dog circle your vehicle.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:50 pm to supadave3
Your Honor, I was simply walking my K9 after a long shift inside my patrol unit. That’s when Roscoe hit on the vehicle in question as we were walking past it.
I was not doing random searches throughout the parking lot.
I was not doing random searches throughout the parking lot.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:51 pm to mikelbr
quote:
ON the otherhand, all it takes is a complaint from an employee or customer that someone was smoking weed in the parking lot and they can smell it. HPD gone come find it.
So the city of Houston is going to send out a unit for someone complaining that they smell weed?
Maybe you're right, I'd feel a little better knowing they at least had some type of reason, but I smell my neighbor smoking weed 3 times a day and our apartment complex has even sent out a email about it and the cops have never came with the dogs. I know, one doesn't equal the other but I still have trouble believing that the cops are going to respond to a weed complaint in this day and age.
I don't know, I've just know I've never seen that before in a public parking lot, especially at 4:00 PM in a city the size of Houston. That looked to all too familiar from when the PD would come to our high school to smell the lockers and cars in the parking lot.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:51 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
It’s an “open air sniff,” not a search. The positive indication from the dog can lead to a search.
Are you sure about this? With no probable cause, 4A should kick in. The owner provides no consent to search.
This post was edited on 2/3/21 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:54 pm to supadave3
Not trolling. But are you sure it was HPD. There is a private security company that patrols the Bunker Hill location. Dude was armed up with a big GS. I thought he was cop, until I got a closer look. Just a regular old rent a cop.
This post was edited on 2/3/21 at 5:56 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:54 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
For all you know he’s just walking his dog, which happens to be a police dog. It could also not be a drug dog (bite/bomb etc).
You and I both know that's bullshite. That's a cop mentality of trying to skirt the fricking Constitutional law to find a sack of fricking weed.
There is a beautiful park 500 yards away from this HEB. SHouldn't he be letting his dog shite somewhere else besides the parking lot of HEB?
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:55 pm to brass2mouth
I agree with the cop (LOL) above that it’s probably not a search from the dog sniffing cases i have read; however, the interesting thing here is it’s in a private parking lot. Although it might not give the car owner much protection, I would tend to think that HEB could ask them to leave. I have heard of numerous instances of business owners asking police to leave their parking lot when they were not pursuing an active investigation, ie, they had set up shop to issue traffic tickets on the adjacent street.
* none of this is legal advice. If you are planning to go to H-E-B with drugs in your car, please seek your own legal counsel… Or just don’t do it.
* none of this is legal advice. If you are planning to go to H-E-B with drugs in your car, please seek your own legal counsel… Or just don’t do it.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 5:59 pm to LoveL
quote:
Not trolling. But are you sure it was HPD. There is a private security company at the Bunker Hill location.
No, I can't say with absolute certainty that it was HPD. But it was at the Kempwood Drive location and he was in a uniform that said "K9 Unit" on the back. That's as close to him as I got. I also didn't go out that side of the parking lot to see specifically that his car was HPD, I was assuming that it was though because it looked identical to the HPD units from 50 yards away.
A rent a cop with a big GS? Interesting. I guess it could have been though. I didn't know rent-a-cops had K9's.
This post was edited on 2/3/21 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 6:02 pm to Sao
quote:
Are you sure about this? With no probable cause, 4A should kick in. The owner provides no consent to search.
100%
Nothing is being searched other than the open air.
It’s no different than you walking passed a cop and smelling like weed. Or you leaving your crackpipe and kilo of cocaine on the front seat and the cop sees it through the window.
And again it’s a public place and your expectation of privacy is minimal.
ETA. For all OP knows the store could’ve hired that dept for security and provide a presence. Who knows.
This post was edited on 2/3/21 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 2/3/21 at 6:08 pm to supadave3
One night at the mini storage facility I managed I came upon a K 9 unit doing the same thing. After asking if he had a warrant ( he didn’t) I ran him off.
Sad to say that cops can be the most dirty,illegal players in the game.
They would come and say give us your tenant list. I would laugh at them. They would ask what was so comical. I would say “ y’all,y’all are the comical ones..you come here and it is perfectly legal for you to ask me to commit a crime for you to solve a crime. Find your way out of here the same way you found your way in here.” Some of them are pricks.
Sad to say that cops can be the most dirty,illegal players in the game.
They would come and say give us your tenant list. I would laugh at them. They would ask what was so comical. I would say “ y’all,y’all are the comical ones..you come here and it is perfectly legal for you to ask me to commit a crime for you to solve a crime. Find your way out of here the same way you found your way in here.” Some of them are pricks.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 6:08 pm to brass2mouth
You said the indication can lead to a search though. Plus, a public expectation of privacy is more of a photography or video deal. Still not seeing how the cop can detain and investigate a "crime" when one hasn't been committed.
Posted on 2/3/21 at 6:11 pm to supadave3
IIRC this was the company that I saw. I know they are all over the place.
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