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62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Posted on 1/17/21 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 1/17/21 at 12:37 pm
Interesting segment just now on Golf Channel about record scoring week in and week out.
66.6 average this week at Sony Open
42 62’s or better last year in a shortened season.
2010 had 33 62’s or lower for entire year
2000 just 13 62’s or better
Jack Nicklaus mentioned that he would like to see golfers using more of a variety of clubs. It’s now all about crushing a drive 340-360 and using a simple wedge for approach shot.
What can be done to change this aspect of the game becoming easier at its highest level?
66.6 average this week at Sony Open
42 62’s or better last year in a shortened season.
2010 had 33 62’s or lower for entire year
2000 just 13 62’s or better
Jack Nicklaus mentioned that he would like to see golfers using more of a variety of clubs. It’s now all about crushing a drive 340-360 and using a simple wedge for approach shot.
What can be done to change this aspect of the game becoming easier at its highest level?
20
Posted on 1/17/21 at 1:00 pm to Paul Allen
The Jeanie is out of the Bottle now, don't know how you can ever change things.
The ball seems to be the culprit according to Jack, but it is a multitude of things (Ball, COR Limits reached, Fitness, Course maintaince and even better mowers)
Cant keep making courses longer because you eliminate too many players.
More and higher rough, bunkers that are really hazards and tighter landing areas is my only answer.
The ball seems to be the culprit according to Jack, but it is a multitude of things (Ball, COR Limits reached, Fitness, Course maintaince and even better mowers)
Cant keep making courses longer because you eliminate too many players.
More and higher rough, bunkers that are really hazards and tighter landing areas is my only answer.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 1:00 pm to Paul Allen
People are talking about banning certain driver technology but there's really nothing you can do about it but build harder courses that punish missing fairways from the tee.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 2:18 pm to Paul Allen
I don’t like the idea of just tricking up a golf course to make it that tough. Jack is right for the most part with the ball. If you create a ball that spins a little more and exaggerates misses, then it’ll make it tougher. You have to do it in a way where it reduces the distance but not the distance gap which is a tough thing to do, but they have the technology to do that.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 2:37 pm to Paul Allen
Modern courses are designed to create those kinds of scores. You see how much trouble a well-designed short par 3 like #12 at Augusta can cause.
Offense draws ratings. That’s why the MLB turned a blind eye to the steroid era and why the NFL designs rules to favor quarterbacks and wide receivers. The PGA does the same thing with course selection and setup. The powers that be want low scores. They could make changes with course setup and selection and bring the scores back up if they wanted to.
ETA as a poster mentioned above, make bunkers a true hazard again and remove some that players look at as a good spot to be in. . When guys are aiming at bunkers something needs to be done.
Offense draws ratings. That’s why the MLB turned a blind eye to the steroid era and why the NFL designs rules to favor quarterbacks and wide receivers. The PGA does the same thing with course selection and setup. The powers that be want low scores. They could make changes with course setup and selection and bring the scores back up if they wanted to.
ETA as a poster mentioned above, make bunkers a true hazard again and remove some that players look at as a good spot to be in. . When guys are aiming at bunkers something needs to be done.
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 1/17/21 at 2:40 pm to Paul Allen
The ball is a part of it. So is the superior training, nutrition, coaching, technology etc.
However, my opinion is the 460 CC driver head with a sweet spot the size of a grapefruit is the biggest problem. There is almost no penalty for missing the center of the club face. As such, the guys can swing all out on every tee ball. Jack Nicklaus could drive it over 300 when he wanted to with persimmon and balata. But he didn’t often because if he missed the shot by a few millimeters, it was going off the planet.
The key to me is bifurcation on woods for the pros... 300 cc with lower MOI. If they hit the middle, it’s still going forever, but they do it knowing that if they miss they’ll pay a price.
However, my opinion is the 460 CC driver head with a sweet spot the size of a grapefruit is the biggest problem. There is almost no penalty for missing the center of the club face. As such, the guys can swing all out on every tee ball. Jack Nicklaus could drive it over 300 when he wanted to with persimmon and balata. But he didn’t often because if he missed the shot by a few millimeters, it was going off the planet.
The key to me is bifurcation on woods for the pros... 300 cc with lower MOI. If they hit the middle, it’s still going forever, but they do it knowing that if they miss they’ll pay a price.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 3:44 pm to Paul Allen
Scoring avg leader last 5 years:
2020 - web simpson 68.978 tour avg 71.099 (58 rounds)
2019 - rory mcilroy 69.058 tour avg 71.213 (72 rounds)
2018 - dustin johnson 68.698 tour avg 71.104 (77 rounds)
2017 - jordan spieth 68.846 tour avg 71.108 (85 rounds)
2016 - dustin johnson 69.172 tour avg 71.181 (87 rounds)
Clearly tech is not advancing so significantly the scores are decreasing, I get Jack's point but guys get hot and play well for one weekend but are not heard of for another few months or the rest of the year.
While I get your point, you're watching a course that isn't setup for a tour player and this is common at a handful of the courses that turn into racetracks on the weekend. Namely TPC and resort courses that are birdie fests.
I would prefer that every course has a required fairway width. I think this would be the easiest change that wouldn't impact current technology cycles. If you walk back tech, that would have a significant impact on everyone that plays competitive golf (re: USGA) requiring everyone to buy new gear to conform. Make all fairways no more than 25 yards wide and have no limit on the height of rough. While players would bitch and moan about lost balls, don't miss the fairway. Maybe hit your 3 wood that is more accurate. Immediately makes the golf course longer.
2020 - web simpson 68.978 tour avg 71.099 (58 rounds)
2019 - rory mcilroy 69.058 tour avg 71.213 (72 rounds)
2018 - dustin johnson 68.698 tour avg 71.104 (77 rounds)
2017 - jordan spieth 68.846 tour avg 71.108 (85 rounds)
2016 - dustin johnson 69.172 tour avg 71.181 (87 rounds)
Clearly tech is not advancing so significantly the scores are decreasing, I get Jack's point but guys get hot and play well for one weekend but are not heard of for another few months or the rest of the year.
While I get your point, you're watching a course that isn't setup for a tour player and this is common at a handful of the courses that turn into racetracks on the weekend. Namely TPC and resort courses that are birdie fests.
I would prefer that every course has a required fairway width. I think this would be the easiest change that wouldn't impact current technology cycles. If you walk back tech, that would have a significant impact on everyone that plays competitive golf (re: USGA) requiring everyone to buy new gear to conform. Make all fairways no more than 25 yards wide and have no limit on the height of rough. While players would bitch and moan about lost balls, don't miss the fairway. Maybe hit your 3 wood that is more accurate. Immediately makes the golf course longer.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 4:26 pm to Paul Allen
Design holes with hazards starting at 300 from the tee.
Make it risk reward.
I’m talking creeks, ponds, coffin bunkers.
Or just face the facts that the best golfers are getting better all the time and low score wins.
Make it risk reward.
I’m talking creeks, ponds, coffin bunkers.
Or just face the facts that the best golfers are getting better all the time and low score wins.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 6:04 pm to Paul Allen
Well, for one, players are better today than they were back in the day. Sure the tech helps out but guys on tour today are so damn good that when they play courses like this one you’re going to have really low scores. It is what it is. Tuning back the ball and/or bifurcation of clubs would do nothing but hurt the game as a whole.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 6:09 pm to Paul Allen
Someone mentioned shortening golf tees
Not sure how effective that would be
Not sure how effective that would be
Posted on 1/17/21 at 7:42 pm to Paul Allen
Golf has really just become a putting contest
Posted on 1/17/21 at 9:29 pm to Paul Allen
I think a lot of y’all are looking at this as some sort of problem and the PGA tour has lost control of scoring. It’s not and they haven’t.
The golf channel is doing nothing more than making a dramatic story to generate a debate.
The real truth is that the PGA tour has one job to do week in and week out. That job is to bring in as many viewers as possible to keep TV contracts at a maximum and sponsors lining up to throw millions at them.
The PGA tour has spent tons and tons of time, energy, and money researching the type of golf that draws the most viewers. And the answer is overwhelmingly long drives, lawn darts, and low scores. This is a fact. You may not like it, but you are the minority.
With few exceptions, the week to week setup for a PGA tour event would be a 5 or 6 out of 10 on what that course could be set up difficulty wise. Colonial is a perfect example of an exception. And it’s a short course by any standard. How do they do it? Simple, small greens and difficult pins. That’s it. And 10 under will often win that event.
Making the best in the world shoot par is very easy. Long rough, narrow fairways, tight pins, firm greens, and make all par 3’s over 200 yards. Done. But nobody would watch.
The golf channel is doing nothing more than making a dramatic story to generate a debate.
The real truth is that the PGA tour has one job to do week in and week out. That job is to bring in as many viewers as possible to keep TV contracts at a maximum and sponsors lining up to throw millions at them.
The PGA tour has spent tons and tons of time, energy, and money researching the type of golf that draws the most viewers. And the answer is overwhelmingly long drives, lawn darts, and low scores. This is a fact. You may not like it, but you are the minority.
With few exceptions, the week to week setup for a PGA tour event would be a 5 or 6 out of 10 on what that course could be set up difficulty wise. Colonial is a perfect example of an exception. And it’s a short course by any standard. How do they do it? Simple, small greens and difficult pins. That’s it. And 10 under will often win that event.
Making the best in the world shoot par is very easy. Long rough, narrow fairways, tight pins, firm greens, and make all par 3’s over 200 yards. Done. But nobody would watch.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 9:37 pm to Paul Allen
Until the USGA and R&A get together and do something about the ball the pros use, this will continue to be an issue.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 10:52 am to Paul Allen
Lol Jack made his living crushing driver and hitting short irons.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 11:38 am to Paul Allen
Plenty of good athletes in the old days. Snead, Nicklaus, Hogan and all those guys could hit the ball 300 when they wanted to. But in general except in select holes at select times, the risk wasn’t worth the reward.
To me, the biggest difference between anyone who learned the game before about 2000 or so and now is swing speed. In the late 90s driver tech became such that kids learned to swing all out all the time. Players before that had to learn to throttle it back and most people before that built their swings around 85% effort. Any more than that and you would miss the sweet spot too often and end up with horrible results. With the new drivers, the sweet spot is huge and if you do miss it, the results are not that punitive. And thus, the risk/reward equation flipped.
To me, the biggest difference between anyone who learned the game before about 2000 or so and now is swing speed. In the late 90s driver tech became such that kids learned to swing all out all the time. Players before that had to learn to throttle it back and most people before that built their swings around 85% effort. Any more than that and you would miss the sweet spot too often and end up with horrible results. With the new drivers, the sweet spot is huge and if you do miss it, the results are not that punitive. And thus, the risk/reward equation flipped.
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:41 pm to Paul Allen
Have them start playing the shitty municipal courses us everyday players play, equipped with hardpan, patchy fairways, bunkers that are often mudholes, and patchy greens full of ballmarks that no one fixes.
Posted on 1/19/21 at 12:39 am to Paul Allen
Start putting water 320 yards from the tee and start rewarding shot making with mid irons.
You don’t need 500 yard par 4’s to make it harder.
You don’t need 500 yard par 4’s to make it harder.
Posted on 1/19/21 at 8:38 am to Paul Allen
This article from Thefriedegg on how courses can discourage bomb and gouge was super interesting. I'm not sure if I completely agree with his assessment of the 30-60 yard shots and the ball's effect on their spin, but thought the article brought other great points nonetheless
LINK /
LINK /
Posted on 1/20/21 at 8:36 am to Paul Allen
It’s always been about the ball. Change the ball.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 7:12 pm to Paul Allen
I would love to see narrower fairways with mostly trouble on either side. There is a country club here in Birmingham I joined last year due to the ridiculously low dues in order to attract new members that is really short, but is the tighest golf course I have ever played. It's called Heatherwood County Club. The former PGA pro that I take lessons from said it's the hardest course he's played due to the punishment for being left or right off the tees and the elevated greens with serious trouble around a good amount of them. Playing there has forced me to become a much better player.
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