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Started By
Message
re: It is time to go all in...on the future.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:14 am to Soggymoss
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:14 am to Soggymoss
Houston doesn’t want Lonzo, they have Wall and Dipo
Tucker is only worth a couple seconds
The Celtics have luxury issues and don’t look to take on a big salary into exception IMO
There is nothing wrong with winning now and planning to win later. The issue isn’t that at all. The issue is that we are NOT winning now. That is the issue.
I love JJ, and Bledsoe is fine. But we have players on the bench that we hope to have for most of the next decade. If we aren’t winning, then what are we doing with guys that are short lived for the team.
Tucker is only worth a couple seconds
The Celtics have luxury issues and don’t look to take on a big salary into exception IMO
There is nothing wrong with winning now and planning to win later. The issue isn’t that at all. The issue is that we are NOT winning now. That is the issue.
I love JJ, and Bledsoe is fine. But we have players on the bench that we hope to have for most of the next decade. If we aren’t winning, then what are we doing with guys that are short lived for the team.
2
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:16 am to Jon1798
quote:
The issue is that we are NOT winning now.
And the reason we aren't winning is because half measures don't work.
Pick one way or the other and go for it.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:18 am to Fun Bunch
Ok, that’s fair
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:25 am to Jon1798
quote:
Houston doesn’t want Lonzo, they have Wall and Dipo
Both often injured. Also, Dipo won't be there long.
quote:
Tucker is only worth a couple seconds
Which is why they will have to throw in another piece. I value Lonzo at a mid (15-20) 1st round. Tucker and House are about that value wise.
quote:
The Celtics have luxury issues and don’t look to take on a big salary into exception IMO
They would just have to dump 2.4 or so in salary to be back out of the tax, that's nothing.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:29 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Those are all terrible deals.
Proposes this
quote:
Lonzo and Lakers 22 1st for Markannen, Temple, Bulls 21 2nd.
quote:
Dinwiddie is going to opt out
Ok, he opts out because he wants a raise, you give him the money you were paying Bledsoe. Still keep him and have a better player.
quote:
Lonzo is worth more than Tucker/House
Not right now he's not.
quote:
Do you honestly think Bledsoe is worth absolutely nothing?
See post above yours. They would have to give something obviously, but he's exactly the type of guy they should be looking to take into the exception, and also gives them insurance in case of another Kemba injury. Also he fits on the floor with everyone of their pieces.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:34 am to NOFOX
quote:
Bled should go to Houston if Wall/Boogie have the influence now.
Bledsoe to Houston
Egghead to Boston
Nesmith to Pels
Keeps Celtics out the tax.
would save us a ton of money. THen we can send Lonzo out and not have to worry about taking back the same amount.
Send Lonzo/Melli to Orlando for Aaron Gordon. I think we can turn him into a reliable 3 point shooter. would be a nice 3rd big for us if we can keep him to around 37% from 3.
NAW/Kira
Hart/Redick
BI/Nesmith
Zion/Gordon
Adams/Hayes
I think that gives you some time to figure out what you need in the back court after seeing Kira/NAW/Nesmith play some heavy minutes this year, and get Didi's arse over here and see what he's got. Maybe all three of them show some promise, and maybe Nesmith can actually start at the 2 with BI at the 3. IF they get good, then you have young studs to include in a big trade. Regardless of what they are, you go into the offseason with about $20M in cap space.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:35 am to Pelefraan 1
Why dump Adams now? His salary goes down the next 2 years to be manageable. Unless you are moving Jaxon or looking to add a stretch big to play with Zion, then you just keep him. Because you aren’t going to find another center to give you what he does for less than 17 mil next year. You can move him before he expires if you want, but he’s another one of those glue guys.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:38 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Proposes this
Markannen is worth more than Lonzo. There isn't a big difference between the 30th pick in the draft and the 38th pick in the draft.
quote:
Ok, he opts out because he wants a raise, you give him the money you were paying Bledsoe. Still keep him and have a better player.
That i don't mind, but it's risky. there's a lot of suitors this offseason.
quote:
Not right now he's not.
yes he is. I know he's stinking it up, but Tucker/House is not a fair deal for a RFA that still has potential. Lonzo is easily worth a non lottery 1st. Tucker/House don't have the same value to us that they do to contender teams. That might be a fair deal if Lonzo played for the Celtics.
quote:
See post above yours. They would have to give something obviously, but he's exactly the type of guy they should be looking to take into the exception, and also gives them insurance in case of another Kemba injury. Also he fits on the floor with everyone of their pieces.
see my post for a Bledsoe trade with celtics.
This post was edited on 1/15/21 at 10:39 am
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:It gets us nothing.
i agree i don't get this middle of the road shite
We still aren't good as the best we can hope for is a play in to the playoffs. So we don't get any real winning experience.
And we also don't get playing time for our youngsters.
It needs to be 1 or the other, and we're not equipped to do anything of note on the win now approach.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:53 am to TeddyPadillac
I'm not giving up an unprotected 1st round pick for an expiring Lauri that will want 20+ million on his next deal, when at best he's a backup here.
Now if you want to discuss a Lonzo and 1st for Patrick Williams, then we can talk.
Now if you want to discuss a Lonzo and 1st for Patrick Williams, then we can talk.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 10:58 am to Soggymoss
quote:Wouldn't be our choice for Dinwiddie to stay. He has a player option and will most likely opt out. So, you trade JJ for nothing. Makes no sense. Bledsoe makes no sense for Boston.
Dinwiddie would be a guy we could evaluate while we rehab his ACL and decide if we want to keep or not. He's also a great veteran, and does what's needed to help the team win no questions asked. His fit with this team is also great.
As for Bledsoe, taking him in to Boston's TPE would have them about 2.4 million into the tax, which would be very easy to get out of. I would ask for a lottery protected future 1st from them, but the real asset for me would be the playing time for Kira and NAW along with the available space
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:09 am to Soggymoss
quote:
I'm not giving up an unprotected 1st round pick for an expiring Lauri that will want 20+ million on his next deal, when at best he's a backup here.
What are you worst case scenarios for that Lakers 1st? Lebron dies? Look i can't stand the m'effer but he has never been hurt (he would have played if his team wasn't so shitty that 1st year with the Lakers. That was like a get healthy year for him), and he takes care of his body better than anyone on the planet ever has. That pick will never be anything better than like 25th.
But i get not wanting to do that trade for Lauri based on him, not the pick. It wouldn't be my first choice that's for sure, but it's better than nothing. He's worth more than Lonzo, and they aren't trading Patrick Williams unless Beal is coming back in it.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:22 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Did anyone expect Kobe to blow his achilles? Freak injuries happen all the time. No way would I give up a 1st for Markannen given his upcoming RFA.
What are you worst case scenarios for that Lakers 1st? Lebron dies? Look i can't stand the m'effer but he has never been hurt (he would have played if his team wasn't so shitty that 1st year with the Lakers. That was like a get healthy year for him), and he takes care of his body better than anyone on the planet ever has. That pick will never be anything better than like 25th.
But i get not wanting to do that trade for Lauri based on him, not the pick. It wouldn't be my first choice that's for sure, but it's better than nothing. He's worth more than Lonzo, and they aren't trading Patrick Williams unless Beal is coming back in it.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:22 am to NOSHAU
Dinwiddie would be good for this team but I have to take a step back from that after seeing Kira. Would rather see what he can do and put another vet PG around him that wouldn't need/ want the ball as much as Dinwiddie. No disrespect to him. He also would be coming off an injury whether that could be a positive or negative.
If we planned on shipping out Bledsoe, Lonzo, and JJ then I'd consider Dinwiddie.
Pat Beverly is the glue guy we need to groom NAW and Kira. That is why I'm hoping for the Clips to implode at some point. I think we can get him in the offseason if they don't make a finals appearance at the very least.
PJ Tucker and McLemore/ House would be worth sending Houston 2nds, Melli, Lonzo/ Bledsoe, and a pick swap if it gets it done.
If we planned on shipping out Bledsoe, Lonzo, and JJ then I'd consider Dinwiddie.
Pat Beverly is the glue guy we need to groom NAW and Kira. That is why I'm hoping for the Clips to implode at some point. I think we can get him in the offseason if they don't make a finals appearance at the very least.
PJ Tucker and McLemore/ House would be worth sending Houston 2nds, Melli, Lonzo/ Bledsoe, and a pick swap if it gets it done.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:26 am to Dantheman504
quote:What? Way too much for an expiring Tucker. I do think the cost for Tucker will rise after the Harden trade as many contenders would love him as part of the team. I do not think it is worth it to us for a partial season.
PJ Tucker and McLemore/ House would be worth sending Houston 2nds, Melli, Lonzo/ Bledsoe, and a pick swap if it gets it done.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:33 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Did anyone expect Kobe to blow his achilles? Freak injuries happen all the time. No way would I give up a 1st for Markannen given his upcoming RFA.
so you are unwilling to trade that pick away just in case a freak injury happens to Lebron?
Even without Lebron, they aren't going to collapse to a bottom 10 team.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:36 am to TeddyPadillac
I'm not going to send it out for Lauri Markannen either.
History has shown, father time is undefeated. It will catch up with him at some point.
Also, we should all know first hand how far AD can carry a team (not very far). They don't have much else outside of him.
History has shown, father time is undefeated. It will catch up with him at some point.
Also, we should all know first hand how far AD can carry a team (not very far). They don't have much else outside of him.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:42 am to Soggymoss
If, big if, Lebron was hurt before the season started and out for the whole season, they would at worst be picking around 18.
Look i absolutely get not wanting to do the trade for Lauri, but this crazy wish that the Lakers 22 pick will end up having much value is ridiculous.
No one values that pick as a possible lottery selection. NO ONE. You can't trade it as if it may be one. It's value is 25-30, 20 at best, and that isn't changing anytime soon.
Look i absolutely get not wanting to do the trade for Lauri, but this crazy wish that the Lakers 22 pick will end up having much value is ridiculous.
No one values that pick as a possible lottery selection. NO ONE. You can't trade it as if it may be one. It's value is 25-30, 20 at best, and that isn't changing anytime soon.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:46 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Disagree, If Lebron were to get hurt, the pick would have value in a trade. Teams value the "unknown" of the pick and its potential. I would not trade it for someone like Markannen unless we already knew he would re-sign for a reasonable salary.
If, big if, Lebron was hurt before the season started and out for the whole season, they would at worst be picking around 18.
Look i absolutely get not wanting to do the trade for Lauri, but this crazy wish that the Lakers 22 pick will end up having much value is ridiculous.
No one values that pick as a possible lottery selection. NO ONE. You can't trade it as if it may be one. It's value is 25-30, 20 at best, and that isn't changing anytime soon.
Posted on 1/15/21 at 11:54 am to LilWezyAna
quote:
I'd dump Adams before Hart. I absolutely love Adams but he just doesn't fit with Zion unless our 1-3 guys are knockdown shooters. That being said, Hart needs to be a lot better than what he has been this year.
Zion actually does much better with Adams on the floor than not, according to +/- numbers, on/offs, etc.
He and Adams running the pick and roll is pretty money.
The trouble comes in with certain other players mixed in with them.
Edit:
Notes from a couple of games back:
This is +/- so not necessarily just offensively, but when looking at 2 man combos Williamson has his best +/- per 100 with Adams (Adams is unsurprisingly in 5 of the top 7).
The worst 2 man +/- on the team (well out of the top 20 as they don't list more than that) is Zion with JJ.
The bottom 7 2 man combos have either JJ or Hart in them (one with both).
I would gather has would be in many they don't show as he is only in 1 shown and it's near the bottom (with Hart). I'd wager the worst not shown is probably JJ with Hayes.
Edit2:
EXTREMELY small sample size (3:55) but the lineup of NAW (who I think works better with Zion than JJ because he can create) and Hart with Adams, Zion, and Ball is +95.2 per 100. That is insanely good.
To go further though, the majority of our plus lineups include Adams, while the minus ones that aren't too bad also include Adams (meaning the really bad ones don't have Adams).
Practically every lineup without Adams is bad or, if good, not that good. The ONLY majorly bad one with Adams is the starting lineup except swapping Bledsoe for JJ.
I know it's hard to play bigs extended minutes, but this dude literally changes the game for us. He's in 7 of the top 8 and 10 of the top 12 (discounting the deep bench lineup against Phoenix).
This post was edited on 1/15/21 at 12:01 pm
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