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Message
re: ATF pistol brace draft proposal
Posted on 12/17/20 at 11:16 am to AlxTgr
Posted on 12/17/20 at 11:16 am to AlxTgr
quote:
I really don't see why you guys are upset with this. You should be upset with the SBR rule, period. I mean, you're building or buying a SBR whether you're honest enough to admit it or not.
I am upset with that rule, but that requires repealing actual legislation which will never happen because republicans are straight up limp-dicked cowards.
This was the most expedient way to get around that bullshite and I was hoping it would gut that legislation to the point of repeal.
I still stand by my statement. The ATF needs to be gutted starting at the top.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 11:57 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I still stand by my statement. The ATF needs to be gutted starting at the top.
I'm wrong for saying this but its what I think and feel. The ATF is one agency where I don't feel any sympathy or empathy towards them whatsoever. I'm at the point to where if BLM or Antifa was assaulting them, I wouldn't care one bit. Not one bit.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 12:57 pm to upgrayedd
quote:Yup
The ATF needs to be gutted starting at the top.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 1:54 pm to Kino74
Might as well go ahead and drill that third hole then. Brrr brrr brrr.
.... jk....I lost all mine in a fire .
.... jk....I lost all mine in a fire .
Posted on 12/17/20 at 2:23 pm to jdavid1
quote:
We shouldn't have to pay a tax and go through the whole background process to be able to own a SBR. That being said I have done it myself several times because I wanted one and want to be legal.
I would be fine with the tax, think Duck stamp, own an SBR or AR pistol, buy a Tax stamp and write the gun serial number on it. If ever questioned, be able to produce the stamp. It's the registration part that brings images of Gestapo Tactics that I can't stomach
Posted on 12/17/20 at 2:48 pm to tiger7166
That duck stamp is $25 and it actually goes for something useful, conservation.
That $200 NFA tax goes to the Gustapo to be waste.
That $200 NFA tax goes to the Gustapo to be waste.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 3:00 pm to Shepherd88
As someone who hasn't been researching this in about 10 years and is looking into building soon, isn't this more reason to buy a brace now that hasn't been specifically opined on and at least get around the $$$ aspect of the stamp? If I'm forced to register retroactively, I may as well just buy a regular collapsable stock to change out or get a tax stamp for a suppressor to achieve the required 16" minimum length, right?
Posted on 12/17/20 at 3:05 pm to tiger7166
quote:This occurrence will be tracked via a registry, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
buy a Tax stamp
Posted on 12/17/20 at 3:43 pm to tiger7166
quote:
I would be fine with the tax
Shall not be infringed. Its super simple and clear.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 3:45 pm to The Melt
I would get the brace. I got the new compact tailhook mod1 a month ago.
You could weld the suppressor to the rifle to get the 16” required and make it a “1 stamp purchase.” But it would make it harder to clean.
You could weld the suppressor to the rifle to get the 16” required and make it a “1 stamp purchase.” But it would make it harder to clean.
This post was edited on 12/17/20 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 12/17/20 at 5:53 pm to Presidio
quote:
Good luck tying anything I post here to an actual persons identity.
I just just traced your IP address. I’ll be knocking on your door shortly.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 7:43 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
I just just traced your IP address. I’ll be knocking on your door shortly.
If you think you have my actual IP address then be my guest.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 8:00 pm to Presidio
Long interview with the owner of sb tactical
Posted on 12/17/20 at 8:45 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
I just just traced your IP address. I’ll be knocking on your door shortly.
Don't shoot my dog
Posted on 12/17/20 at 9:02 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
The ATF needs to be gutted starting at the top.
Wrong.
The ATF needs to be dissolved. All gutting does is make them start over packing it with their lackeys.
It needs to not exist.
Posted on 12/17/20 at 9:05 pm to The Melt
quote:
get a tax stamp for a suppressor to achieve the required 16" minimum length, right?
It has to be 16" from the bolt face to the muzzle with all removable components (i.e.: suppressors) removed and the bolt closed.
If the suppressor is pinned and welded to the barrel, like a Mist-22 integrally suppressed barrel, they only require one stamp for the suppressor, because the barrel is over 16". The same general setup (8" barrel with 8" of suppressor) with a removable suppressor requires two stamps: SBR and suppressor.
This post was edited on 12/18/20 at 8:45 am
Posted on 12/17/20 at 9:49 pm to Kino74
quote:I REALLY don't like this idea.
Importantly, the draft document recognizes that most people with braced firearms have acted in good faith. It suggests that the agency seeks to establish a procedure by which people who already have firearms that may fall under the purview of the NFA, and who wish to take advantage of registering them as NFA firearms to obtain the legal protections of such, may potentially do so without payment of the associated tax.
It seems expressly designed to make us ok with the idea of registering, as long as we don't have to pay for it.
If it came down to 1 or the other, I'd much rather pay $200, instead of registering a firearm.
Posted on 12/18/20 at 3:46 am to Scoob
quote:
I REALLY don't like this idea.
It seems expressly designed to make us ok with the idea of registering, as long as we don't have to pay for it.
If it came down to 1 or the other, I'd much rather pay $200, instead of registering a firearm.
With ya all on the way on that. One thing a lot of people iverlook with tyr NFA, is its more than about paying a $200 fee and a wait period of uncertain length. The possession, residency and travel restrictions are quite a culture change from title 1 firearms.
Posted on 12/18/20 at 8:33 am to Kino74
Request for comment has been dropped on the Federal Register website
I know not all of us have pro-2A Congresscritters, but those of you that do need to contact them. And not just Representatives, but Senators as well.
The only way I see this getting stopped, is Congress making a stink about it like what happened when the ATF was considering classifying M855 as armor piercing.
Here is a nice format I found on ar15.com for you to use as an email:
Dear Representative XXXXX, you may be aware of the letter recently issued by BATFE, "Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with "Stabilizing Braces". I write to voice my concerns and request that your office investigate the basis for this proposed rule change and the factors to be used in determining whether a formerly legal object, a braced pistol, suddenly becomes a short-barreled rifle that is subject to NFA restrictions. Under the administrative regulations that govern ATF and all federal agencies, rule changes cannot be arbitrary or capricious, and there must be sufficient framework established so that those subject to the regulations know with certainty whether their actions are lawful.
The ATF proposal does not provide any guidance to owners of braced pistols to aid them in determining whether their firearms will be subject to registration. The factors listed are incomplete; for example, "Type and Caliber" are listed as factors considered, but no examples are given as to what calibers would be "pistol" versus "short barreled rifle". "Length of Pull" is listed as a factor, but no proposed measurements are provided. This same vagueness is present in every factor listed.
Millions of stabilizing braces have been purchased in good faith by law-abiding citizens since 2012; the ATF's proposed actions present lawful firearm owners with a choice between registering their firearms or becoming potential felons, all without any firm guidance as to what types of firearms would need to be registered.
I hope you and your office will look into this matter and rein in ATF; otherwise, I fear that the incoming administration will run roughshod over gun owners and severely erode the God-given rights protected by the Second Amendment.
I know not all of us have pro-2A Congresscritters, but those of you that do need to contact them. And not just Representatives, but Senators as well.
The only way I see this getting stopped, is Congress making a stink about it like what happened when the ATF was considering classifying M855 as armor piercing.
Here is a nice format I found on ar15.com for you to use as an email:
Dear Representative XXXXX, you may be aware of the letter recently issued by BATFE, "Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with "Stabilizing Braces". I write to voice my concerns and request that your office investigate the basis for this proposed rule change and the factors to be used in determining whether a formerly legal object, a braced pistol, suddenly becomes a short-barreled rifle that is subject to NFA restrictions. Under the administrative regulations that govern ATF and all federal agencies, rule changes cannot be arbitrary or capricious, and there must be sufficient framework established so that those subject to the regulations know with certainty whether their actions are lawful.
The ATF proposal does not provide any guidance to owners of braced pistols to aid them in determining whether their firearms will be subject to registration. The factors listed are incomplete; for example, "Type and Caliber" are listed as factors considered, but no examples are given as to what calibers would be "pistol" versus "short barreled rifle". "Length of Pull" is listed as a factor, but no proposed measurements are provided. This same vagueness is present in every factor listed.
Millions of stabilizing braces have been purchased in good faith by law-abiding citizens since 2012; the ATF's proposed actions present lawful firearm owners with a choice between registering their firearms or becoming potential felons, all without any firm guidance as to what types of firearms would need to be registered.
I hope you and your office will look into this matter and rein in ATF; otherwise, I fear that the incoming administration will run roughshod over gun owners and severely erode the God-given rights protected by the Second Amendment.
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