re: If Rohan Had Been QB in 2006, We Win the NC

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what about the fumble on the 1 inch line VS Fl?

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you mean the one where he never go the ball?

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you mean the one where he never go the ball?

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no shite he didnt get the ball

thats part of his job though. he pulled out way to fast..or got nervous

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he pulled out way to fast..or got nervous

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LINK

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he pulled out way to fast..or got nervous

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I'm almost positive both Jimbo and Helms said that was Helms' fault. All I can find is something about it on the Reveille site though.

Allow me to weigh in on this...Forgive the length.

First, it takes a lot of guts to say that Herb Tyler was better/more talanted than Russell. I just don't even know where to begin. For one, Tyler was not that talented and was sort of discovered by mistake. Had Howard not gotten injured in '95 and Melvin Hill could have maintained, Herb would have never played and '96 might have been his first year to even get in a game. Herb was a great Tiger...no doubt. He engineered an offense, though, that was run first. Often times, we had two TE's; a TE with an h-back; rarely did you see 4 wides in the game at any point. Herb was a runner who had two-three Tb's behind him who were studs. Herb had Tommy Banks blocking for any of those three (and Robert Tyler for one year)and had three unbelievably good interior linemen in Perry, McClure, and Faneca. Herb didn't haveto do much, except mangage a game well and make a few plays here and there to Foster and Booty. You have tailbacks that can get over 100 in a game, easily. You just have to rely on your team. Now, if things go badly:

Anyone watch the '97 Auburn game? The '97 first ND game? Herb looked awful. At times, he was efficient. At times, he tried to do more than he was capable of. No, Herb did not have the Wr's that Davey, Mauck, and JR had, but he didn't have to. The '95-'98 offenses were not geared to chunk the ball downfield. Herb could not throw a bomb, nor effctively throw a pass over 15 yards. His favorite target was the sideline out route and the curl...two easy ones, once you get the timing down and can read coverage as well as an 8th grader. Herb still had Larry Foster and for a year and a half, had a decent Abram Booty. In '96, he had David LeFleur and Nicky Savoie. Like I said, he had worlds of talent at TB behind him. To sum up this "much ado about nothing" post, Tyler would not have been effective with Crowton's and Fisher's offenses. He's not that type of qb. There's a reason he's playing Arena Ball and not the NFL. I loved him and still do...he had a 28-12 record as a starter.

To quickly address Hodson being better than JR....nonsense. Hodson was a tough, sharp, and aggressive qb. He had an All-American WR, an all-SEC TE, and the Great Wall of China blocking for him. He also had Tb's that often posed as 3rd WR's. In the late 80's, you did not see LSU in shotgun, 4 wide sets. It just wasn't like that. Hodson threw mostly shorter passing routes...a lot of comebacks to Wendell Davis and a lot of TB pass patterns to Williams and Martin and Fuller. Hodson rarely threw a bomb or hit runners in stride. Ed Zaunbrecher rolled him out a lot and kept it simple. Get rid of the ball. Find Davis...if not, find Kinchen...if not, find Harvey. If not, get down because you cannot run. Hodson threw 2 TD's to every INT and a good yardage game for him was about 200. He had a 400 yarder once vs. UT, but rarely was he above 250. Summing it up...smart, protected, utililzed properly, and respected. If the guy was ultra-talented, though, he wouldn't have to be taken out for Mickey Guidry for two series every game.

Now, brass tacks...Rohan vs. JR. I loved Rohan and he was probably my favorite qb to ever play for LSU. He had a strong arm and poise; most of all he possessed leadership skills that were uncanny for a guy who wasn't the starter (in 2000). Rohan had some bad games here and there, but 80 percent of the time, he was doing good things. He had some great talent around him in Reed, Myers (never gets talked about, but should), Reggie Robinson, Clayton, etc. He also had two good TB's behind him. Rohan still lost to some teams and some were bad.

JR lost to top 10 teams in his final year. He played poorly vs. Florida and was never really let go in the Auburn game. In '05, JR led an LSU team to a west crown without a running game. He had Vincent and Hester. That was it, when Addai went down. In '06, it wasn't much better until KW came along. Yes, JR had amazing WR talent, also. What it comes down to, I suppose, are the intangibles. Davey had NFL size, but it wasn't necessarily the right kind of NFL size. He was 6'3" and probably weighed as much as 255-260 at points while at LSU. His arm was well above average (and his stats were, as well, thanks to the many yards after the catch by Reed), his feet were quite below it (but he could find a way to run), and his ball-carrying was atrocious (loaf of bread doesn't do it justice). Russell at 6'6" and 250 is much more of the NFL wet dream. He could be overwight at times, too, but his build was better...he looked better. His arm is the strongest I have ever seen. His accuracy was often unreal. He never won an SEC title (ah, but did Davey? think on that), but he was 23-4, to my calculations, as a starter over three years. Davey, as a starter over three years, was 11-5. JR also beat Florida, Auburn, and Bama in the same year. No other LSU qb has done that.

Without a doubt, the two most talented qb's over the last 20 years at LSU were Russell and Davey. Mauck and Flynn could fall behind and even though they both won NC's, they were not the awesome specimen that the former were. Let's not forget that Mauck and Flynn had the stars align perfectly for them to have the chance to attempt to win a title game for their teams. JR, had a couple of plays went differently, might have had same chance...'06 just wasn't cooperating with us. Herb Tyler had every chance to get to that center stage, but he wasn't a complete enough qb (and it didn't help that the defense was subpar)and couldn't take over a game by himself. Tyler is definitely 5th on the list as far as these mentioned names. Seriously, when will some realize that JR's come along hardly ever? Did any of us ever sit back and marvel at how much fun this kid was thrwoing the football or were we too stressed by Fisher's play-calling? Say what you want about Jimbo...I wasn't a big fan either, but he developed some pretty awesome talent at qb while he was at LSU. None greater, though, than JR.

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If Rohan Had Been QB in 2006, We Would Be on Probation

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I loved Herb Tyler and Rohan Davey. With JR, I didn't feel comfortable with him at QB.

But I do agree that JR should have been the #1 QB in the 2007 draft for two reasons:

1) I didn't feel that there were any solid prospects as potential great NFL QBs in that draft class (not Quinn, Kolb, Beck, or Stanton impressed me -- and they were the other top QB taken in the 1st and 2nd round).

2) At least with JR, you get a QB with insane physical abilities... probably the best ever... and the NFL offers the best of the best when it comes to football player development. And it's not like JR is going to have to split time with academics like at LSU, in the NFL, developing as a QB will be his full-time job.

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did I mention my quote about 3 good receivers.

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I'm not doubting there talent, but we seem to forget just how many passes were dropped in '06 as well, especially by Bowe.

I'd venture to guess the # of drops from 06 and 07 were not that far apart.

And why is it always assumed that JR's stats were inflated by good WRs?

Maybe just maybe those WRs stats were inflated by JR completing passes to them that no other QB in college football could make that year to the tune of a 68% completion %.

Lets do a test.

ID the QB by his Sr. year stats. Go go rantards.

QB #1

67.8% 3129 yds 9.1 ypa 28/8 Td/Int 167.03 RAT

QB #2

65.7% 3815 yds 8.9 ypa 28/8 Td/Int 157.75 RAT

QB #3

61.5% 2939 yds 6.9 ypa 15/10 Tds/Int 126.39 RAT

QB #4

67.5% 2952 yds 9.3 ypa 32/4 Tds/Int 176.52 RAT

QB #5

65.2% 2026 yds 9.3 ypa 26/10 Tds/Int 163.95 RAT

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So in other words you are a racist?

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I loved Herb Tyler and Rohan Davey as QBs for LSU. There were both black.

I have noticed that a decent bit of people who think JR is the greastest LSU QB ever are fans that only started loving LSU football after we won our 2003 championship. Since 2003, only JR (black guy) and Matt Flynn (white guy) have been our primary QBs. JR was better than Flynn. So was RP, another black guy (as for RP, I think RP would have been a much greater QB for LSU than JR was).