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Rising Tide by John Barry - thoughts from MS/LA/AR folks?
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:08 pm
Have any of you read Barry's book about the 1927 Mississippi Flood and the culture/social/governmental issues and structure leading up to it?
I had a very basic knowledge of it but have found the book fascinating. It centers around the levee vs spillway/jetties debates and the cultural changes in the Delta and the lower MS River Valley between the War and the early 20s, then the actual flood itself.
Just curious if anyone here from those regions that had family stories/feelings about those times knew about the book or had read it and how accurate it was.
I had a very basic knowledge of it but have found the book fascinating. It centers around the levee vs spillway/jetties debates and the cultural changes in the Delta and the lower MS River Valley between the War and the early 20s, then the actual flood itself.
Just curious if anyone here from those regions that had family stories/feelings about those times knew about the book or had read it and how accurate it was.
This post was edited on 11/8/20 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:10 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Yes I read it this past summer
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:12 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Read that this year, thought it was fascinating.
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:14 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Yes, I read that book when it first came out. Have a copy somewhere. Very interesting book.
Was this the book that covered Senator Leroy Percy and his son Will quite a bit? It has been years since I read it so my memory is vague and I might be confusing it with another book.
Was this the book that covered Senator Leroy Percy and his son Will quite a bit? It has been years since I read it so my memory is vague and I might be confusing it with another book.
This post was edited on 11/8/20 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:15 pm to SummerOfGeorge
A lot of the hostility toward NOLA from the rest of the state stems from the 1927 flood and the special treatment it received vis a vis the rest of the state. At the same time, the flood broke the economic stranglehold NOLA had on the rest of Louisiana. It destroyed the coalition between the New Orleans Old Regulars and upstate Planters and led to the rise of Huey Long and his organization.
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:16 pm to SummerOfGeorge
That one and Last Days of Last Island are on my "To Read" list.
This post was edited on 11/9/20 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:42 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Actually heard about this book last week. Or maybe the week before. Whenever it was, I was listening to WRKF, and the book / author came up in some context. Sounded interesting and made myself a mental note to look for it.
As far as personal anecdotes, my paternal side arrived in SELA around the turn of the century (1900) and lived / settled along what would become the I-55 corridor. My maternal side was pretty concentrated around the SW corner of St. Helena Parish for the past couple hundred years. So, not really any family history that intersects with that particular event.
As far as personal anecdotes, my paternal side arrived in SELA around the turn of the century (1900) and lived / settled along what would become the I-55 corridor. My maternal side was pretty concentrated around the SW corner of St. Helena Parish for the past couple hundred years. So, not really any family history that intersects with that particular event.
Posted on 11/8/20 at 10:57 pm to SummerOfGeorge
From North MS And didn’t know much about the 27 flood, read the book a few years ago and loved it
Posted on 11/8/20 at 11:08 pm to SummerOfGeorge
An account of the flood of 1882 LINK
Posted on 11/8/20 at 11:11 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Read it years ago. Great book! After reading it I wondered why the flood was never at least partially blamed for the onset of the Great Depression. Had to be a factor.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 6:48 am to SummerOfGeorge
Yes I read it. Shows how nasty politics can be. Hoover made a valiant attempt to help the flooded out people of Mississippi and then was unfairly blamed for causing the Great Depression. Also the political leaders of New Orleans should have been imprisoned for life for what they did to the people living just south of that butthole of a “ city “,those arrogant bastards believed that other people did not count and this attitude still exist today. I still profess that New Orleans should Not be part of Louisiana.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 7:08 am to SummerOfGeorge
Yes, have a copy and have read it twice. Great read and amazing how much politics played into what happened before, during and after.
Also, amazing how widespread the flooding was.
Also, amazing how widespread the flooding was.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 7:16 am to SummerOfGeorge
Ordered for a future read. Thanks for the rec.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 7:24 am to SummerOfGeorge
It's really very good. I read it while back. It's interesting that Eads and the COE battled it out on how to handle the river. Eads jettys were the right solution imo.
Interesting that a young West Point graduate COE named Robert Edward Lee participated in helping Eads clear the St. Louis sandbars.
Edit: Re: personal connections.
My Dad was from Merigold Mississippi and spent time as a very young boy, about 9, walking up and down his sector of the levee around Greenville looking for water or sand boils coming up through the levee.
At night they walked up and down using oil lanterns. The sight of the lanterns swinging to and fro often looking like greasy yellow globes in mist, rain, or fog inspired William Alexander Percy to title his autobiographical memoirs Lanterns on the Levee.
Percy was a Southern Agrarian and saw the constant but ultimately futile struggle to monitor and control the river as an apt metaphor for the South's doomed struggle against a culturally bankrupt statist modernism.
His chapters on the 27 flood are very good. His chapter on riverboats is equally good and both have some of the best prose ever written. He compared the flood when if finally breached the levee to an "imbecile blind Titan." He compared riverboats and trains saying each had their own glory but the speeding train was like a meteor but the sound of the riverboat, its bell, hangs in your heart like a star.
Interesting that a young West Point graduate COE named Robert Edward Lee participated in helping Eads clear the St. Louis sandbars.
Edit: Re: personal connections.
My Dad was from Merigold Mississippi and spent time as a very young boy, about 9, walking up and down his sector of the levee around Greenville looking for water or sand boils coming up through the levee.
At night they walked up and down using oil lanterns. The sight of the lanterns swinging to and fro often looking like greasy yellow globes in mist, rain, or fog inspired William Alexander Percy to title his autobiographical memoirs Lanterns on the Levee.
Percy was a Southern Agrarian and saw the constant but ultimately futile struggle to monitor and control the river as an apt metaphor for the South's doomed struggle against a culturally bankrupt statist modernism.
His chapters on the 27 flood are very good. His chapter on riverboats is equally good and both have some of the best prose ever written. He compared the flood when if finally breached the levee to an "imbecile blind Titan." He compared riverboats and trains saying each had their own glory but the speeding train was like a meteor but the sound of the riverboat, its bell, hangs in your heart like a star.
This post was edited on 11/9/20 at 7:52 am
Posted on 11/9/20 at 7:54 am to SummerOfGeorge
Yes great book and shows that there was of mix of science and politics well over 100 years and amazing to think that decisions made by scientists diving in the Mississippi River in back then are still effecting so many. The levee versus flood plane debate sorta parallels the mask versus no mask world we live in now.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 8:17 am to SummerOfGeorge
I own an old farm house in the middle of the state that my grandparents bought in 1895 and it is across the road from the Ouachita River. In the flood the house was under water to the roof line for several months. They moved a lot of personal items, furniture etc..onto the roof. They moved their livestock and personally lived on the high ground at Harrisonburg, LA along with most other families from that region. I have a lot of old pictures from that time. Campfire cooking, tent living. It was a hard time.
They all are buried in that cemetery on the hill in Harrisonburg as well which became a cemetery specifically because it was the high ground.
They eventually had a levee built sometime in the 30’s and a great uncle was on the board of the Tensas Levee District. He had the route of the levee moved to bring the house within the boundaries and it has not flooded since. I pay property tax to the levee district.
Great book. I’ve read it a couple of times.
They all are buried in that cemetery on the hill in Harrisonburg as well which became a cemetery specifically because it was the high ground.
They eventually had a levee built sometime in the 30’s and a great uncle was on the board of the Tensas Levee District. He had the route of the levee moved to bring the house within the boundaries and it has not flooded since. I pay property tax to the levee district.
Great book. I’ve read it a couple of times.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 9:26 am to SummerOfGeorge
Yes, I read it a few years ago.
It’s a great book - VERY informative.
It’s the type of book that I will need to revisit, just because there is so much information in it.
It’s a great book - VERY informative.
It’s the type of book that I will need to revisit, just because there is so much information in it.
Posted on 11/9/20 at 10:07 am to SummerOfGeorge
Yep, it's a fine book. Does a great job explaining why the Federal Government owns what happens on the lower Mississippi, and why many of us refer to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina as "the Federal Flood."
Posted on 11/9/20 at 11:20 am to SummerOfGeorge
I have. I wrote my university thesis arguing against the scenario that Barry paints. AMA
I'll just post it here:
I'll just post it here:
quote:
One Man versus the Mississippi River:
How the Caernarvon Crevasse Changed Flood Policy in America
There has been much scholarly research dedicated to the Great Flood of 1927, but surprisingly little has been focused on the cutting of the levee below New Orleans. The few that have focused their efforts on the cutting of the levee have lent their attention on the aftermath of the flood, the pitiful payout of reparations the residents of Saint Bernard and Plaquemines Parish received, or the New Orleans wealthy who are painted as greedy profiteers. Instead the spotlight should be on the poor policy and planning that eventually forced the hand of New Orleans to destroy the levee along with the life’s work so many residents of the affected parishes. If anyone stands out above the rest in the story of the flood, it is J. D. Kemper who gave report after report warning of impending disaster due to the levee system. The New Orleans men that made the decision were not the demons that John Barry, author of Rising Tide, made them out to be. Their hand was forced by years of bad policy made by men drunk on their own egos.
quote:
Imagine standing on top of a levee looking out over the father of waters, the Mississippi River, about twelve miles down from New Orleans. The sun is high in the sky; the water is rushing past your feet. It is a picturesque spring day in Saint Bernard Parish. There is a pleasant breeze that cools the face from the warm sunlight. Out on the river are the most magnificent yachts the city of New Orleans had to offer. Above is the constant buzz of airplanes, probably photographers from the New York Times and the Associated Press. A long line of cars that look like Ford Model T’s are lining the dirt road coming as far as the eye can see going back towards New Orleans. Going up the road in the opposite direction towards Chalmette and New Orleans are jalopies packed full with a lifetime of belongings, memories, and adolescent boys hanging from the windows. A beat up farm truck passes and you hear a mother crying. Her husband, wearing nothing but overalls and a straw hat, has a stern but defeated look on his worn face.
quote:
Immediately after, one of the Model T’s parks on the levee and a family gets out. The father of this family is well dressed, wearing a seersucker suit and an expensive boater hat made from straw. He puts his official pass that was given to him to gain access to this spectacle, which apparently has become the entertainment event of the year, in his inside jacket pocket. The children run out of the car, a young girl in a sundress and a boy of about eight wearing a suit with high socks and a newsboy cap. Both are laughing, enjoying the beautiful day. Their mother yells at them to stay close and to not go near the water.
quote:
The National Guard has been patrolling the levee for a couple of weeks. Even now they can be seen across the river ensuring that land owners from St. Bernard or Plaquemines Parish don’t try to blow the levee on the west bank of the river. It would be a desperate move, but livelihoods are at stake. Before the National Guard was here, locals were patrolling the levees armed with whatever firearms they had to protect their levees from people that lived further down river who desperately needed relief for their levees as well.
quote:
A crowd gathers around while downriver approximately a half mile, explosives have been laid to destroy the levee. A seaplane flies overhead as someone says that the time is just past 2:30. The paper said it would happen at noon. Out on the river a log floats by with a rabbit riding on top. That is when you look up and hear the first of 1,500 pounds of dynamite blast sending a portion of the levee sky high. The women gasp, the men point. This truly is a high society event that you are witnessing. Surrounded by the upper crust of New Orleans society, all here to witness what was guaranteed to be a spectacle. When the dust settles there is but a small hole in the levee. A crevasse that was supposed to be over 1,000 feet in length is only a ten foot by six foot hole. Disappointed, the shakers and movers retreat to their vehicles to make the twelve mile trek back to the city.
quote:
The amount of dynamite the plan had originally called for to create the crevasse was soon exhausted. It would end up taking 39 tons of dynamite over the next ten days to cut the hole in the levee that had been planned: a hole that was to save the city of New Orleans, a hole that would destroy the livelihoods of thousands of farming families, a hole that with proper planning and sound policy could have been avoided, a hole that was deemed unnecessary the very next day.
This post was edited on 11/9/20 at 11:26 am
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