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re: ESPN writer: Most NBA execs don't believe that Ingram is worth a max contract
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:28 am to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:28 am to GOP_Tiger
We really don't want to make the same mistake Utah made with Hayward. They told him to go get another offer and Charlotte stepped up to the plate forcing Utah to match. Gordon was soured by the lack of faith from Utah's management, played his 2 season, and then bolted to Boston.
AD is more than likely signing with the Lakers. That means Ingram may very well be the best player on the market this offseason
AD is more than likely signing with the Lakers. That means Ingram may very well be the best player on the market this offseason
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:37 am to GOP_Tiger
The games I’ve watched of him, he seems like a volume scorer that struggles when you cut his volume and ask him to play a smaller role.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:41 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:Rob Pelinka does not count as most NBA Execs
Most NBA execs don't believe that Ingram is worth a max contract
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:43 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Most executives believe Ingram isn't worth a max contract,
I don’t really believe this.
I guess it could be accurate because valuing a players worth is very subjective.
If the question asked to NBA executives was -should the pelicans give Ingram a max deal it ? The answer would be 100% yes.
You would have to be clueless to say no, all things considered.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:45 am to The Pirate King
quote:In the 8 games BI played with Zion, BI averaged 21 points on 15.5 shots per game. 40% from 3.
The games I’ve watched of him, he seems like a volume scorer that struggles when you cut his volume and ask him to play a smaller role
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:46 am to Kennerkarl
Building good will with players and agents this early in a new regime is worth more than the small amount you may save trying to negotiate less than a max.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:49 am to The Pirate King
quote:
The games I’ve watched of him, he seems like a volume scorer that struggles when you cut his volume and ask him to play a smaller role.
"Volume scorer" would insinuate that Ingram isn't efficient. That's not even close to true.
He's 85th percentile points per shot attempt on 95th percentile usage. There's like 8 players in the league who can match that, and it's a who's who of the league's best scorers- Giannis, Luka, Harden, Booker, KAT, Kyrie, etc.
And Ingram can absolutely help the team when he's not shooting a lot- he's 91st percentile in assist rate among forwards. 75th percentile in assist to usage rate.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 11:57 am to GOP_Tiger
How in the flying frick is a small market team with no history of success in position to haggle over a few million with an extremely young all star wing who seems very happy where he is and still has plenty of potential to keep improving?
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:09 pm to The Pirate King
Small sample, but
The Ringer- 5 Most Interesting Teams of the Stretch Run
quote:
Ingram per-36 with Zion off the court (1,467 minutes): 26.4 points, 6.8 rebounds, 4.4 assists, one steal; 47.4/40.2/85.8 shooting splits; 1.36 assist-to-turnover ratio; .600 true shooting percentage
Ingram per-36 with Zion on the court (134 minutes): 25.2 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.4 assists, 1.1 steals; 46.4/37.9/90.5 shooting splits; 2.50 assist-to-turnover ratio; .601 true shooting percentage
quote:
In the seven full games Ingram played with a healthy Zion, Ingram’s overall footprint within the Pelicans’ offense did shrink a bit; he averaged about 11 fewer touches per game than he had before Zion’s arrival, with reductions in his average time of possession, seconds per touch, and dribbles per touch. One thing that didn’t decrease, though: Ingram’s average number of points scored per touch. That went up, from 0.37 pre-Zion to 0.382 after his debut.
The Ringer- 5 Most Interesting Teams of the Stretch Run
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:11 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
The games I’ve watched of him, he seems like a volume scorer that struggles when you cut his volume and ask him to play a smaller role.
Christ you are dumb.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:30 pm to GOP_Tiger
It looks like we’re pretty much all in agreement here.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:55 pm to The Pirate King
I think it is true that there were some games this year that he’s been reduced to only a “volume scorer,” but that’s been mostly out of necessity. Going into this season, plenty of people were not fans of Ingram’s game, myself included. He had way too many question marks surrounding him. But out of these question marks, which ones do you think he hasn’t improved on this year or outright answered?
- Long-term health implications (cleared)
- Shaky 3pt and FT shooter (40% and 86%)
- Ball stopper on offense (still an issue sometimes, but his AST% is +7.1% from last year, while TOV% has decreased to career low)
- Poor shot selection (taking 9% less shots in the “dummy area” and increased 3p volume)
- Lacks athleticism to get to the rim (has been a little better, but still not his strength. Has instead been using his dribble to get to his spots on the floor, reflected in the fact that his TS% is up 5% while his ast’d FGs are down 9%)
- Lacks the strength and lateral quickness to defend his position (The jury is still out, but his STL% BLK% DRB % and TRB% are all career highs. Adding muscle and getting stronger will help with that).
It’s not about paying for the player Ingram is now, it’s about paying him for what you think he projects to be. He still has some attributes of being only a “volume scorer,” and, though I’d still be hesitant to give him a max personally, you can’t argue that he hasn’t checked almost every box this season.
- Long-term health implications (cleared)
- Shaky 3pt and FT shooter (40% and 86%)
- Ball stopper on offense (still an issue sometimes, but his AST% is +7.1% from last year, while TOV% has decreased to career low)
- Poor shot selection (taking 9% less shots in the “dummy area” and increased 3p volume)
- Lacks athleticism to get to the rim (has been a little better, but still not his strength. Has instead been using his dribble to get to his spots on the floor, reflected in the fact that his TS% is up 5% while his ast’d FGs are down 9%)
- Lacks the strength and lateral quickness to defend his position (The jury is still out, but his STL% BLK% DRB % and TRB% are all career highs. Adding muscle and getting stronger will help with that).
It’s not about paying for the player Ingram is now, it’s about paying him for what you think he projects to be. He still has some attributes of being only a “volume scorer,” and, though I’d still be hesitant to give him a max personally, you can’t argue that he hasn’t checked almost every box this season.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:20 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Christ you are dumb.
In the game thread for the game that Zion returned, he stated that he hadn't watched a game since the preseason.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:37 pm to Baron
I’ve thought of him as an “adequate” defensive player. But his offense and hustle count for a lot.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 2:24 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The question you have to ask is "How much money saved per year is worth possibly souring a relationship with a player?"
This. Ingram seems to really like it here being from small town NC. I’d like the pels to keep the relationship optimal with a max offer. No need to nickle and dime a young All Star over a few million.
I feel like he’s only become more complete as he grows into his wingspan.
This post was edited on 2/20/20 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 2/20/20 at 2:47 pm to GOP_Tiger
What those execs are doing is trying to sabotage the relationship between BI and the Pels. It hasn’t been hard lately to get players to leave. I trust the new leadership though.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 2:58 pm to St Augustine
I think the other important question in this situation is what do you think your loss exposure is, if any, if you assumed solid health but only performing at or around his current output level, but for whatever reason you had to move him.
I.E. would you be able to at least break even or not. And I think with Ingram you absolutely would. A majority of franchises may say that in a vacuum they wouldn’t pay Ingram the max, But a player at his position, with his current output, would almost certainly be able to be moved if the reason came up. And the difference in a few million when we are already going to be a luxury team shortly negates anything you are really going to do with the savings in all likelihood.
I.E. would you be able to at least break even or not. And I think with Ingram you absolutely would. A majority of franchises may say that in a vacuum they wouldn’t pay Ingram the max, But a player at his position, with his current output, would almost certainly be able to be moved if the reason came up. And the difference in a few million when we are already going to be a luxury team shortly negates anything you are really going to do with the savings in all likelihood.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 3:26 pm to GOP_Tiger
LOL What!? You definitely give the max to BI.
Screw ESPN. They want BI and all of the superstar talent on big market teams. You know they dislike us for whatever reasons...
Screw ESPN. They want BI and all of the superstar talent on big market teams. You know they dislike us for whatever reasons...
Posted on 2/20/20 at 3:41 pm to JustinT37
quote:
They want BI and all of the superstar talent on big market teams.
I disagree. At this point, everyone knows that Zion is in New Orleans for a minimum of 7 years or so. The media will cover him like crazy and it’s in their best interest for his team to be good. BI playing for the Knicks does nothing for them. BI isn’t a marketable “star”.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 3:54 pm to TotesMcGotes
BI is better than any FA we could hope to attract and is already among the best at his position in the NBA with the ability to keep growing
Lebron has been the best basketball player in the league for a while now and couldnt get any player of Ingram's caliber or better to Cleveland through FA/Recruiting
Maybe one day Zion will have that kinda pull especially since NOLA is a much more appealing city than Cleveland
I know this is just the national media once again spouting off because they dont have actual New Orleans news sources but I cant imagine us not giving Ingram what ever he wants.
Lebron has been the best basketball player in the league for a while now and couldnt get any player of Ingram's caliber or better to Cleveland through FA/Recruiting
Maybe one day Zion will have that kinda pull especially since NOLA is a much more appealing city than Cleveland
I know this is just the national media once again spouting off because they dont have actual New Orleans news sources but I cant imagine us not giving Ingram what ever he wants.
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