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re: Fuel test: 10 gallons of E85 today in my Tahoe..
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:06 am to fallguy_1978
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:06 am to fallguy_1978
quote:
Ethanol production is worse for the environment than if we just burned regular gas. It's become a political football though.
Burning food to make fuel.
0
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:09 am to fallguy_1978
quote:
ethanol is such a joke
Great fuel for more power. Producing it still takes a lot of energy though.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:09 am to fallguy_1978
quote:
Ethanol production is worse for the environment than if we just burned regular gas
The way it's currently grown, I completely believe you. But environmental cost isn't the concern for me. I just like to know that when I'm investing in thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment and transportation that fuel and parts will always be available.
Despite the higher natural cost both financially and environmentally of ethanol, I like the idea of knowing that I can power all my ICEs with seed and plow on my own land.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:15 am to Cosmo
quote:
ethanol free, thats how I usually roll
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:17 am to Bigfishchoupique
The ECU in flex fuel vehicles will read the EtOH content and adjust accordingly. Horsepower will increase, yes. A quick google suggests you will find about a 5% power increase in non-boosted engines. You can expect a fuel economy drop on the order of 25% however the fuel cost is often a decent bit cheaper as well.
In my specific case, I’d need to get with my tuner and get an ethanol tune. In my boosted engine power will increase significantly since E85 has some advantages due to latent heat of evaporation and a stoichiometric balance different than gasoline. It’s helpful in that E85 fuel withstands knock better than gasoline fuels since the octane rating is considerably higher (93 vs 105 in my case).
In my case I’d also need to change quite a bit about my car. Upgraded injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, and custom tune. The cost isn’t cheap but gaining horsepower rarely is.
In my specific case, I’d need to get with my tuner and get an ethanol tune. In my boosted engine power will increase significantly since E85 has some advantages due to latent heat of evaporation and a stoichiometric balance different than gasoline. It’s helpful in that E85 fuel withstands knock better than gasoline fuels since the octane rating is considerably higher (93 vs 105 in my case).
In my case I’d also need to change quite a bit about my car. Upgraded injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, and custom tune. The cost isn’t cheap but gaining horsepower rarely is.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:25 am to nola000
quote:
Despite the higher natural cost both financially and environmentally of ethanol, I like the idea of knowing that I can power all my ICEs with seed and plow on my own land.
You obviously have no clue what it takes to turn farm products into ethanol.
What are your “plows” and other farm equipment burning to make all of this feel good fuel?
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:29 am to nola000
quote:
If I had the land I would grow sugar cane and power my gasoline engines for free. Would save my family $400 a month in fuel cost
big if, if you had the land.
You gonna get some slaves on your make believe land to farm the sugar cane? you realize farming cost money?
Are you going to just stick the sugar cane stalks straight into your fuel tank, or do you not realize it also costs money to make this ethanol?
Posted on 1/2/20 at 9:31 am to nola000
quote:Technically, yes.
What makes it a joke? Its renewable
quote:Not really. It requires the usage of petroleum-based fertilizers and diesel-combusting tillage, harvesting, and logistical equipment to produce corn or sugar on a scale large enough to meet production needs. Each of those energy inputs has to be subtracted from the end benefits.
sustainable
Hard to see how all of that ultimately results in any carbon savings or overall fossil fuel consumption savings, not to mention the long-term impact of the increased demand on the human food supply and what that does to the price of food.
If the first presidential primaries weren't in a major corn-producing state, I doubt you'd see so much ethanol in your gas.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 11:24 am to AndyCBR
quote:
You obviously have no clue what it takes to turn farm products into ethanol.
What are your “plows” and other farm equipment burning to make all of this feel good fuel?
I've done the research.
You need to stop with the "feel-good" bullshite and other accusatory language because you know Jack shite about me.
Take your narrow-minded pigeonholing and shove it up your fricking arse. I'm a libertarian, homesteader type not some hippie, sjw, liberal.
Contemporary, politically-colored, zeitgeist influenced, talking-head dribble has no place in conversations with me.
Try again.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 11:29 am to HarryBalzack
quote:
Not really. It requires the usage of petroleum-based fertilizers and diesel-combusting tillage, harvesting, and logistical equipment to produce corn or sugar on a scale large enough to meet production needs. Each of those energy inputs has to be subtracted from the end benefits.
It doesn't require petroleum-based anything. Not on the individual scale, anyway. And that's the only scale I'm referring to, yet that doesn't stop everybody in this thread from making this political and scaling this out to the current agribusiness model. That's not the ethanol use I was defending. I was defending your granddaddy's ethanol use. As it was done a hundred years ago on small home farms.
And not as a matter of public policy for the general public. I don't give a rat's arse about the general public. I'm worried about my own sustainability and survivability should there be some economic breakdown in the future that requires everybody to fend for themselves or at least to the end necessary to continue to live my current quality of life.
And if that never comes, even better. They'll be no effort wasted when you can reduce your personal costs to near zero thereby alleviating the necessity to be a wage slave. Think Amish.
This post was edited on 1/2/20 at 11:34 am
Posted on 1/2/20 at 11:34 am to VolsOut4Harambe
quote:
Lol you’ll go from 11mpg to 7.
What the economics on this though?
Cost per mile?
Posted on 1/2/20 at 11:39 am to Bigfishchoupique
quote:
Power goes up when using more ethanol ? Please educate me,I am an apt pupil.
1. ethanol has a higher octane rating so you can use more timing advance and/or boost and create more power
2. ethanol absorbs more heat in the intake charge and produces a cooler and denser fuel/air mixture
An engine's ability to identify and adjust for the percentage of ethanol in the fuel determines how much extra power the engine can make.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 11:47 am to nola000
quote:
I've done the research.
You need to stop with the "feel-good" bullshite and other accusatory language because you know Jack shite about me.
Take your narrow-minded pigeonholing and shove it up your fricking arse. I'm a libertarian, homesteader type not some hippie, sjw, liberal.
Contemporary, politically-colored, zeitgeist influenced, talking-head dribble has no place in conversations with me.
Try again.
Please enlighten the group how you are going to self farm sugar cane and power your vehicles self sustainably with the results of said crops.
No diesel tractors involved? No other precursors to refine the ethanol? Are you also modifying all your ICE engines to run on 100% ethanol?
I’m listening.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 11:59 am to Obtuse1
Ethanol from terrestrial farming is not very efficient, large scale algae and seaweed farming to produce ethanol or butanol makes more long term sense. However, moving forward electricity is the best method of powering vehicles. Battery storage is likely to be the stopgap to fuel cell energy storage/conversion.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 12:11 pm to LSUAlum2001
How little do you drive that half a tank lasts you a whole week?
Posted on 1/2/20 at 12:12 pm to Obtuse1
Why has no one tried to make ethanol from sugar cane?
Posted on 1/2/20 at 12:27 pm to nola000
quote:
It doesn't require petroleum-based anything. Not on the individual scale, anyway. And that's the only scale I'm referring to
Curious as to how much land it would take to farm enough cane to replace the $400.00 worth of gas you are currently using? How many acres?
What equipment does it take to go from raw cane to ethanol? How are you refining the cane into ethanol and then blending it with petroleum fuel. Permit to store that product?
I am hoping you looked into this and can provide some info as I am interested in doing this myself.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 12:28 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
However, moving forward electricity is the best method of powering vehicles.
If the power from that plug came from thin air I might agree with you.
Unfortunately, the electric power used for charging has a cost (economic and environmental) associated with it also.
It remains to be seen what the environmental effects and sustainability are for large scale vehicle battery systems.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 12:29 pm to nola000
quote:
If I had the land I would grow sugar cane and power my gasoline engines for free. Would save my family $400 a month in fuel cost
And spend a few grand a month on the diesel for the tractors to save your fuel bill for your cars.
Posted on 1/2/20 at 12:32 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Why has no one tried to make ethanol from sugar cane?
There is plenty of research and small scale operations but you have to grow the correct ethnologic strains of cane for efficient conversion of bagasse and straw to ethanol. The yield of sugar cane compared to corn in the US us fairly small (corn stacked). There are countries like Brazil that it makes more sense when yields are compared.
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