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Started By
Message
re: Is the scuttling of Operation Northwoods by JFK a valid assassination theory?
Posted on 3/4/19 at 5:26 pm to goatmilker
Posted on 3/4/19 at 5:26 pm to goatmilker
quote:
The biggest thing that happened to make me wonder if there was in fact a conspiracy
Probably him saying he was a patsy...
Then getting caught in the theater...that his cab dropped him off a couple of blocks up from...
Minutes after being spotted killing a cop...nearly a mile away...while he was on foot...
That his marriage was a sham...
That his girlfriend in New Orleans said he called the night before the assassination and said he thought something was wrong about tomorrow...
That he worked with feds...and the Warren commission didn't report that
That he worked with Ferrie...and the Warren commission didn't report that...
That witnesses stated they heard Johnson saying Kennedy would be dead the next day...
That Bush Sr was at that same event...and in Texas the day of, but doesn't remember
That Nixon said he and Johnson were a lot alike, in that they both wanted to be POTUS, except he wouldn't kill a man to be one...
That Johnson was notorious for clearing people without consequence (Like Hillary today)...
That the House Committee on Assassinations deemed it likely a conspiracy...
Idk
1
Posted on 3/4/19 at 6:07 pm to ChineseBandit58
Do you think the third shot came from the behind, where Oswald was supposedly shooting from? You can say the front part of his head exploding was the exit wound, but why did his body jolt back and to the left if he was hit from behind? There were doctors at the hospital and others that have been interviewed and said the right back part of his skull was blown out and was likely the exit wound. You can't have two exit wounds from one shot. The throat shot likely came from behind out through the front and to Connolly, by Oswald or someone else. They were only able to find a fuzzy palm print that supposedly belonged to Oswald on the rifle. Jim Marrs said he talked to the coroner that processed Oswald. He said two CIA or FBI agents came and wanted to look at Oswald's body and had a rifle with them. They did however find a fingerprint on the sixth floor room of Mac Wallace, a well known hit man.
Posted on 3/4/19 at 6:49 pm to GumboPot
quote:When da Coke has too much amphetamine in it.
What is coke jaw?
Posted on 3/4/19 at 7:19 pm to IceTiger
quote:
Probably him saying he was a patsy...
Then getting caught in the theater...that his cab dropped him off a couple of blocks up from...
Minutes after being spotted killing a cop...nearly a mile away...while he was on foot...
That his marriage was a sham...
That his girlfriend in New Orleans said he called the night before the assassination and said he thought something was wrong about tomorrow...
That he worked with feds...and the Warren commission didn't report that
That he worked with Ferrie...and the Warren commission didn't report that...
That witnesses stated they heard Johnson saying Kennedy would be dead the next day...
That Bush Sr was at that same event...and in Texas the day of, but doesn't remember
That Nixon said he and Johnson were a lot alike, in that they both wanted to be POTUS, except he wouldn't kill a man to be one...
That Johnson was notorious for clearing people without consequence (Like Hillary today)...
That the House Committee on Assassinations deemed it likely a conspiracy...
Probably him saying he was a patsy...
>> I agree, this statement was very useful towards conspiracy folks. Also, thankfully, guilty men never claim to not be involved. Whew on that!
Then getting caught in the theater...that his cab dropped him off a couple of blocks up from...
>> pretty insignificant.. your point?
Minutes after being spotted killing a cop...nearly a mile away...while he was on foot...
>> that was your point? Weak. Oh and it seems your conspiracy NOW involves either the "innocent patsy" Oswald executing a police officer or Officer Tippit being killed by other conspirators to frame Oswald.
That his marriage was a sham...
>> ok, few have argued this. SO Marina Prusakova, the 19 year old Soviet citizen married Lee Harvey because Soviet (or CIA) planners needed her to. Gotcha. All in the master plan.
That his girlfriend in New Orleans said he called the night before the assassination and said he thought something was wrong about tomorrow...
>> yea no shite... "hey honey-pot. I'm about to be fricking famous!!! Brain fragments on Jackie's pink dress. Y'all are gonna love it."
That he worked with feds...and the Warren commission didn't report that
>> I'll look into this, but I think you are full of shite. Unless you mean when he was a Marine.
That he worked with Ferrie...and the Warren commission didn't report that...
>> no clue if this is true, or if true, if important
That witnesses stated they heard Johnson saying Kennedy would be dead the next day...
>> I am quite sure this is bull shite. Even if LBJ was dumb enough to say this, I guarantee no one in his inner circle would be there if they were so disloyal to reveal that
That Bush Sr was at that same event...and in Texas the day of, but doesn't remember
>> no clue if this is true, or if true, if important
That Nixon said he and Johnson were a lot alike, in that they both wanted to be POTUS, except he wouldn't kill a man to be one...
>> I seriously doubt Nixon said this, or if he did, it was in a different context.
That Johnson was notorious for clearing people without consequence (Like Hillary today)…
>> Johnson was a known liar, cheater, and election-thief. Reports of his murderous ways are far less reliable
That the House Committee on Assassinations deemed it likely a conspiracy...
>> almost ENTIRELY based on audio evidence from a microphone on a police motorcycle indicating a fourth shot was fired. However, THAT audio evidence has since been COMPLETELY refuted
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:21 pm to prowler
What a gruesome set of gifs. I think what we see there is pretty obviously exit and not entry. Obvious inertia of the bullet is back to front. I don’t really see that exact scene being created from the TSBD, but I guess it’s possible. After visiting Dealey Plaza, that was the biggest thing that struck me. The place is literally surrounded on three sides by tall buildings.
What I see in the film is much more likely from almost directly behind.
What I see in the film is much more likely from almost directly behind.
This post was edited on 3/4/19 at 9:26 pm
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:27 pm to troyt37
quote:
What I see in the film is much more likely from almost directly behind.
Experts familiar with ballistics, physiology of the neck muscles, and gunshot wounds to the head see EXACTLY what you see.
For some reason, conspiracy theorists see, or claim to see, the opposite... a shot from JFK's front-right (where the grassy knoll is).
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:31 pm to JPinLondon
quote:
For some reason, conspiracy theorists see, or claim to see, the opposite... a shot from JFK's front-right (where the grassy knoll is).
The TSBD is most decidedly not directly behind Kennedy. You only have to go up there once and check out the X on the pavement to see that clearly. A head shot from there would have blown out the other side of his head, and likely would have involved Mrs. Kennedy as well.
This post was edited on 3/4/19 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:34 pm to troyt37
quote:
The TSBD is most decidedly not directly behind Kennedy. You only have to go up there once and check out the X on the pavement to see that clearly. A head shot from there would have blown out the other side of his head, and likely would have involved Mrs. Kennedy as well.
I misread your post then. I respectfully disagree with your assessment. As do the experts I referred to regarding physiology and gunshots.
The video falls well within what would be expected from the 6th floor of the TSBD. Which I have visited.
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:44 pm to JPinLondon
When I was there, they had lexan around the shooters perch, you couldn’t get the exact view. But the shocking thing is the proximity, and the angles. I have been shooting rifles for close to 40 years, often from elevated positions, and many times at similar angles. Never once have I had matter blow out to the same side I was shooting from. Has anyone?
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:54 pm to troyt37
quote:
I have been shooting rifles for close to 40 years, often from elevated positions, and many times at similar angles. Never once have I had matter blow out to the same side I was shooting from. Has anyone?
How often did you shoot a human skull resting on a human neck? If once or more, I defer to your judgment and observations.
If not, please refer to the understood way a rifle bullet hitting the center of a skull will in a way "explode" it in a manner similar to what Mr. Zapruder captured on his Super-8.
Posted on 3/4/19 at 9:57 pm to JPinLondon
JFK wanted peace with Russia,wanted to disband the CIA/Deep State and probably The Fed. We know now there IS a Deep State. Put CNN or MSNBC on 24/7 attacking a duly elected President. For TWO YEARS.
Oswald joined the Marines on his 17th birthday. He served in Japan at a CIA base as Radar operator. He had a Security Clearance. He monitored our U2 spy flights over Russia.
Eventually he defects to Russia. Says he gonna tell them what he knows about the U2. A year later Francis Gary Powers U2 flight is shot down.
2 years later comes back home no questions asked, no charges. The US even payed his way home!
Then there’s New Orleans and Mexico City.
And there’s so much more.
Oswald was used.
The attending physician said entrance wound to the throat from the front.
Large wound in the back of the head.
Shot from the front and back.
Deep State did it.
Oswald joined the Marines on his 17th birthday. He served in Japan at a CIA base as Radar operator. He had a Security Clearance. He monitored our U2 spy flights over Russia.
Eventually he defects to Russia. Says he gonna tell them what he knows about the U2. A year later Francis Gary Powers U2 flight is shot down.
2 years later comes back home no questions asked, no charges. The US even payed his way home!
Then there’s New Orleans and Mexico City.
And there’s so much more.
Oswald was used.
The attending physician said entrance wound to the throat from the front.
Large wound in the back of the head.
Shot from the front and back.
Deep State did it.
This post was edited on 3/4/19 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 3/4/19 at 10:09 pm to JPinLondon
quote:
How often did you shoot a human skull resting on a human neck? If once or more, I defer to your judgment and observations.
Never, but I have shot deer and mostly hogs in the head. Never have I had the kinetic energy of the bullet deviate in such a manner. Now, I’ve probably only killed 50 hogs or so, probably not more than 25-30 of them being good head shots, but without fail the exit was directly opposite the shooting angle.
From what I’ve seen, the bullet entered the back of the skull, to the right of the center line. Given the shooters position, and the angle of Kennedy’s head, that puts the exit just a little below and to the left of Kennedy’s left eye.
Posted on 3/4/19 at 10:18 pm to GumboPot
Go listen to the hardcore history podcast about the Cuban missile crisis. Dan without even meaning to lays out a very valid reason as to why the CIA and military could be behind a plot.
Posted on 3/4/19 at 10:22 pm to JPinLondon
quote:
> I agree, this statement was very useful towards conspiracy folks. Also, thankfully, guilty men never claim to not be involved. Whew on that
He didn't say he wasn't involved...he said he was a patsy, which means he knew he could've been duped. By whom?
Your dismissal isn't analytical and comes off as childish and off point.
quote:
> ok, few have argued this. SO Marina Prusakova, the 19 year old Soviet citizen married Lee Harvey because Soviet (or CIA) planners needed her to. Gotcha. All in the master plan.
You are making leaps and assuming many holes I didn't say...so continue with your weak dismissal...
quote:
> yea no shite... "hey honey-pot. I'm about to be fricking famous!!! Brain fragments on Jackie's pink dress. Y'all are gonna love it."
Not what she said he said, look into it...or keep the silliness up, you do you
quote:
That he worked with Ferrie...and the Warren commission didn't report that...
>> no clue if this is true, or if true, if important
Ferrie was one of Marcello's guys, he helped coordinate training for the Cubans in bay of pigs invasion. Some mob experts believe Marcello and the Tampa family were involved.
quote:
> I am quite sure this is bull shite. Even if LBJ was dumb enough to say this, I guarantee no one in his inner circle would be there if they were so disloyal to reveal that
You really haven't looked into this...it was his hired help (servers, maids)...you're right though, none in the inner circle gave him up
quote:
Roger Stone says Nixon “never flatly said who was responsible [for the murder of JFK]. But he would say, ‘Both Johnson and I wanted to be president, but the only difference was I wouldn’t kill for it.”
When Stone would press Nixon on who killed Kennedy Nixon “would shiver and say Texas.”
Roger Stone also said Mac Wallace was the trigger man in the 6th floor...some statements and a fingerprint match that claim.
I'm not necessarily convinced Wallace took the final shot or anything, but the fingerprint and eye witnesses suggest he was there. He has been known to be the guy that cleared people for LBJ on his rise to the top. There was a decent documentary about him decades back...just in the sense he helped him rise to the top. The first I heard him named involved in JFK was by Stone.
Posted on 3/4/19 at 10:29 pm to thibodauxtiger
quote:
Mexico City
I think Mexico City was another guy acting like Oswald to set up the assassination...
It was so off-point...him trying to get to Cuba?
Also funny, the thing with the pro-Cuba flyers where he was arrested...with the address of an FBI contractor on the flyer (and ex agent), getting into a public fight to get arrested.
Then he's with Ferrie many times trying to help take Castro down.
His actions definitely appear directed.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 12:16 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
I always thought the combination of Northwoods, the Federal Reserve thing, and Vietnam policy is what put him on the hit list.
All of that and his desire to gut the intelligence community and remake it.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 12:26 am to GumboPot
LBJ AND GEORGE BUSH HAD JFK KILLED BECAUSE HE WAS GOING TO DRAIN THE SWAMP, HIS LAST SPEECH WAS ABOUT EXPOSING THE DEEP STATE SO THAT GOVERNMENT WAS TRANSPARENT AND HONEST. THEY COULDN'T LET THAT HAPPEN, TOO MUCH POWER, MONEY AND MANIPULATION OF US WOULD RUIN THEIR PLANS FOR NEW WORLD ORDER. EVERYONE WHO WAS ALIVE WHEN JFK WAS SHOT KNEW EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE WHEN IT HAPPENED, EXCEPT GEORGE BUSH. WHEN HE WAS ASKED HE SAID, I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE I WAS THAT DAY. THEN HE TYPED UP A CIA NOTE ABOUT SOME INVEST HE WAS DOING THAT DAY IN WASHINGTON, IT'S IN THE FILES
Posted on 3/5/19 at 8:51 am to goatmilker
quote:The nature of the investigation left most folks suspicious.
The biggest thing that happened to make me wonder if there was in fact a conspiracy was
For example, in the week following JFK's assassination, the secret service conducted a reconstruction of the limo path from the assassin's viewpoint. It was filmed through a scope equal to that on the Oswald rifle.
At that point, there was excellent evidence as to path of at least one of the projectiles (presumably shot #1) because not only did it pass through-and-through JFK. It hit two people at once, also passing through-and-through John Connally's thorax. The SS already had the Zapruder film and a litany of other sources, so properly positioning JFK and Connally models could have easily been done.
Yet, in the reenactment, the SS used a vehicle with only standard front and back seats, and with no center jump seat. They made no effort to include Connally in the positioning to verify trajectory. That is odd. Very very odd.
We know the exact location and position of the limo when the first wounds occurred. It is recorded on Zapruder frames 224-225. it would be very easy, and standard practice to place wound-track manikins in the location of Connally and JFK on Elm St, and simply pass a dowel through reproduced gunshot tracks. Ascertain exact direction of the shot, and where the shooter was most likely located, and let the chips fall where they may.
That is standard investigatory stuff. Instead, it appears the approach was to manipulate facts to fit the narrative.
In an apparent attempt to align Connally and JFK compatible with a 6thFl TSBD shot, drawings mispositioned Connally to the middle of the limo and significantly lower in his seat than JFK. Bodies were oddly twisted, not at all c/w photographic evidence.
Likewise, as far as I am aware, there was no ability to ever explain the pristine condition of the magic bullet. It passed through JFK contacting enough tissue +/-bone to cause it to tumble, entering Connally sideways, breaking ribs, then passing out of his chest. again breaking bones in his forearm before passing through his leg. Any number of those impacts would be expected to deform a projectile.
Just a strange way to conduct the investigation.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 9:21 am to JPinLondon
quote:
That's fine my friend. I find this fascinating. I sortof understand your queston… but maybe I don't. Jack Ruby's Sunday morning timeline is such that if someone hired (or coerced or directed) him to eliminate the patsy, they sure hired a dumbass or incompetent person, just based on his activities. I guess I am saying those facts are not incidental to the conspiracy... they all but prove no conspiracy involving Ruby. Ask me again, if I missed your point.
thanks. sorry I dropped off to not follow up until this morning -- if the posts are floating near the top, I'm less likely to hunt for them.
Ruby's actions on that morning prior to his shooting do nothing to go either way with a conspiracy. I think we have the benefit (and the crutch) of being able to look at this with our bias to say what does or does not look like a clown show. if I were asked to do something like that, I'd have to find a way to shoe horn it into what I was doing that day. now, I wouldn't be going to western union to pay rent or whatever, but today is much different than 56 years ago. there'd be no transfer of a prisoner, especially a high profile one, in the middle of a bunch of folks.
so, my refined question, is why discount Ruby's day as opposed to treated everything Oswald did with one single goal?
I spend far too long investigating incidents as a part of my job, so chasing the why's is where I sometimes live.
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