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Message
re: Do You Believe in Absolute Morality?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:19 am to NYNolaguy1
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:19 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
The OP was claiming that ALL stealing is wrong. Absolute morality implies that it is wrong ALL the time.
I disagree with standards of morality being applied to war for obvious reasons. You can say that killing in war is not 'murder' but lots of people who are killed in war are non combatants so it's as bad as murder.
quote:
I just have trouble believing that in an emergency situation you wouldn't be looking for food to keep your family alive.
I have never relied on the kindness of strangers for anything in my life. And my life is 90% over so I think I'll make it to the grave.
The reason is simple. I have made VERY good decisions about potential problems all my life. I've been through 5 hurricanes. My dad, my brother and I knew exactly what we were doing. Mom was told just to STFU and do what we said.
Katrina could not have happened to me. Because when I was offered a job in N.O. long ago I turned it down specifically because I didn't want to live in that shithole town.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:24 am to Zach
quote:
I disagree with standards of morality being applied to war for obvious reasons. You can say that killing in war is not 'murder' but lots of people who are killed in war are non combatants so it's as bad as murder.
I actually agree with most of this.
quote:
I have never relied on the kindness of strangers for anything in my life. And my life is 90% over so I think I'll make it to the grave.
The reason is simple. I have made VERY good decisions about potential problems all my life. I've been through 5 hurricanes. My dad, my brother and I knew exactly what we were doing. Mom was told just to STFU and do what we said.
I am glad you didnt have to experience that.
quote:
Katrina could not have happened to me. Because when I was offered a job in N.O. long ago I turned it down specifically because I didn't want to live in that shithole town.
If not Katrina then Harvey, or Michael, or Sandy, or 9/11, or a tsunami or earthquake or any random disaster...
Just because you havent experienced a disaster doesnt mean that others will have the same fortune.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:25 am to Zach
quote:
The reason is simple. I have made VERY good decisions about potential problems all my life. I've been through 5 hurricanes. My dad, my brother and I knew exactly what we were doing. Mom was told just to STFU and do what we said. Katrina could not have happened to me. Because when I was offered a job in N.O. long ago I turned it down specifically because I didn't want to live in that shithole town.
wow.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:28 am to Perfect Circle
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
But on a serious note- No i do not believe in absolute morality. There is way too much gray area in life to try and confine morality to black and white / right and wrong.
I wouldn’t lie in a normal, everyday contextual situation, but I would lie if doing so meant preventing harm to my loved ones. Same with violence- “thall shalt not kill” is pretty universally understood, but I would kill without hesitation in defense of myself, family, friends, or country.
Most importantly, I am vehemently against people trying to impose some sort of absolute morality within the confines of running a nation. I think that the US should be a kind and compassionate nation (which in many ways we are), but I believe wholeheartedly that our government’s responsibility is to the safety and well-being of its citizens and legal residents above all-else. That being the case, there are times where the nation’s perceived morals have and will be compromised.
But on a serious note- No i do not believe in absolute morality. There is way too much gray area in life to try and confine morality to black and white / right and wrong.
I wouldn’t lie in a normal, everyday contextual situation, but I would lie if doing so meant preventing harm to my loved ones. Same with violence- “thall shalt not kill” is pretty universally understood, but I would kill without hesitation in defense of myself, family, friends, or country.
Most importantly, I am vehemently against people trying to impose some sort of absolute morality within the confines of running a nation. I think that the US should be a kind and compassionate nation (which in many ways we are), but I believe wholeheartedly that our government’s responsibility is to the safety and well-being of its citizens and legal residents above all-else. That being the case, there are times where the nation’s perceived morals have and will be compromised.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:30 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Correct, this is why Democrats can be such hypocrites when it comes to right and wrong.
bullshite. You guys love saying things like killing is wrong but then you're totally fine with it when we declare preemptive war on another country and end up killing 600,000 people in the Middle East and several thousand US soldiers. But hey that's okay right because it's legal. Never mind the morals that you expected everyone else to follow
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:32 am to Ebbandflow
Little early to be bleeding so badly. Change your tampon
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:32 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Just because you havent experienced a disaster doesnt mean that others will have the same fortune.
It has nothing to do with 'fortune' or 'luck'. It has to do with thinking. I knew what threats existed in every environment I was ever in and had contingency plans or moved to another environment.
Unfortunate events... like a sudden tornado, being struck by lightening or being diagnosed with terminal cancer do not involve starving to death so that you would be tempted to steal food.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:34 am to Zach
quote:
It has nothing to do with 'fortune' or 'luck'. It has to do with thinking. I knew what threats existed in every environment I was ever in and had contingency plans or moved to another environment.
I’ve never been in such a situation either, and hopefully never will. But I can still see how the person affected is completely justified in stealing food to survive.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:44 am to beerJeep
quote:
Little early to be bleeding so badly. Change your tampon
This is how I can always tell you're stumped. This is lazy and it bores me.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:46 am to beerJeep
quote:
Stumped? By you?
If we're going by what usually happens, yes
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:50 am to beerJeep
quote:
I’ve never been in such a situation either, and hopefully never will. But I can still see how the person affected is completely justified in stealing food to survive.
Well, there is also the difference of what is 'nice' and what is 'moral obligation.'
If you were in desperate straights and found your way to my house in the woods and begged for food, I would give you some (unless I saw that you were obese).
But giving you food is an act of kindness. It is not a moral obligation.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:50 am to beerJeep
You know, I just can't subscribe to situational ethics. Followed to its logical conclusion, it always comes down to the end justifies the means. "Wrong" doesn't change to "right" just because of the circumstance.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:51 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
The knowledge of right and wrong is part of our being. How did it get there? What is its source?
I know where this thread is going but, I'll answer anyway.
Honestly, bottom line is that it comes from the basic concept of do unto others which really isn't a religious concept.
With rare exception, if there is something that you wouldn't be OK with others doing to you, then it's wrong to do it to them. And, of course, if there are ways you believe you should be treated, then, it's likely correct to treat others in the same way.
How it "got" there is simple. It's completely logical.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:56 am to Zach
quote:
you were in desperate straights and found your way to my house in the woods and begged for food, I would give you some (unless I saw that you were obese). But giving you food is an act of kindness. It is not a moral obligation.
Fat shaming isn’t nice!!! but one could argue that you’re morally obligated to save someone’s life if possible.
Like I said earlier, morality isn’t black and white and there are always exceptions to the rule. (Which is an oxymoron in and of itself but that’s a different discussion) and there always being an exception to the rule is where stealing food when in dire circumstances came into play.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 10:59 am to beerJeep
quote:See my post.
Fat shaming isn’t nice!!! but one could argue that you’re morally obligated to save someone’s life if possible.
Honestly, I Think people make this much more complicated than it has to be. I mean, I suppose the word "obligated" is kinda loaded.
But, bottom line, if I arrived at your house starving after being lost in the woods and you had food, I would want you to help me.
Hence, if you arrived at mine, I'd help you.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:02 am to Rex
quote:How did I miss your return?
Rex
Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:03 am to Rex
quote:
No. And what I said needs no further explanation.
He’s saying that a serial killer is only rearranging the atoms of its victims, nothing more. We only pass judgement on that action because of our silly old primate survivalist brains, right Rex?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:04 am to ShortyRob
quote:
But, bottom line, if I arrived at your house starving after being lost in the woods and you had food, I would want you to help me.
Absolutely. But I’m talking more Katrina type survival stealing. Like, breaking into an abandoned store to steal food. Not stealing food out of another’s mouth.
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