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Message
The view from a known opponent of the O hire.............(me)
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:32 am
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:32 am
I opposed hiring O. I STILL believe the choice was indefensible in terms of criteria. That said, some hiring choices that are 100% defensible don't pan out and some that seem silly do. Sure. That's not a solid way to play the odds, but it happens. So, with that in mind, once the hiring occurred, I simply decided to judge on what happened from there forward. So.......
My take on O as of today. Note, I'm sure some will say, "well that wasn't O" or whatnot. Pfft. He's in charge. If we suck, the buck stops on his desk. If we don't, he'll deserve some credit.
Positives:
1. The team overall appeared to get better as the season progressed. Yes, I know our schedule helped, but, I still think it's very arguable that the team in November was well ahead of the team in September.
2. Recruiting. I know that this is one people are griping about but honestly, I was concerned recruiting could crater because of O's history. Instead, the class looks to be a decent class that maybe is a shade short of when we were at our best. And, it's filling needs which sometimes even our best recruiting did NOT do.
3. Recovery. The team could have totally folded after the Troy loss. We've certainly seen that happen to teams in college ball. That they didn't is a credit no matter who you want to give it to.
Negatives:
1. Well, you really can't accept MSU/Troy. That shite happens again next year and all the improvement as the season goes along in the world won't shine the turd.
2. In game decisions. Honestly, I wanted to put this in the positive but some of how he handled the QB situation this year was a real head scratcher. I was VERY over DE but, O still bungled the frick out of that a couple of times. It's kinda of a credit to DE that the dude didn't just fold up shop(especially after the Bama game)
3. The need to revamp how he was running the team after Troy. I mean, look. That's cool and it seemed to be the right call. But shite. That's why we didn't want to hire him. We don't need a guy trying to figure out the right way to be a head coach.....on the job!
4. His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
Overall:
I saw enough this year to think it's possible next season that O surprises us. I think those that say it's a certainty that he will fail are simply trying to fulfill their own prophecies.
But, I damned sure didn't see enough to start polishing up national championship trophies. The folks in here who have effectively become O pumpers are silly.
I just think we're in a limbo season. A season where there isn't enough to go on to be overly optimistic or pessimistic.
So. For me. In the absence of a definitive reason not to be, I'm entering this off season very hopeful about next.
We are returning like 40 players who played on defense(exaggeration LOL). And, theoretically, we have two guys who are supposed to have talent competing for the spot at QB. And, we seem to have gotten help in the trenches(not to mention the OL did improve as the season went along).
I'm content to go in to 2018 with that but with a cautious eye given O's lack of pedigree.
My take on O as of today. Note, I'm sure some will say, "well that wasn't O" or whatnot. Pfft. He's in charge. If we suck, the buck stops on his desk. If we don't, he'll deserve some credit.
Positives:
1. The team overall appeared to get better as the season progressed. Yes, I know our schedule helped, but, I still think it's very arguable that the team in November was well ahead of the team in September.
2. Recruiting. I know that this is one people are griping about but honestly, I was concerned recruiting could crater because of O's history. Instead, the class looks to be a decent class that maybe is a shade short of when we were at our best. And, it's filling needs which sometimes even our best recruiting did NOT do.
3. Recovery. The team could have totally folded after the Troy loss. We've certainly seen that happen to teams in college ball. That they didn't is a credit no matter who you want to give it to.
Negatives:
1. Well, you really can't accept MSU/Troy. That shite happens again next year and all the improvement as the season goes along in the world won't shine the turd.
2. In game decisions. Honestly, I wanted to put this in the positive but some of how he handled the QB situation this year was a real head scratcher. I was VERY over DE but, O still bungled the frick out of that a couple of times. It's kinda of a credit to DE that the dude didn't just fold up shop(especially after the Bama game)
3. The need to revamp how he was running the team after Troy. I mean, look. That's cool and it seemed to be the right call. But shite. That's why we didn't want to hire him. We don't need a guy trying to figure out the right way to be a head coach.....on the job!
4. His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
Overall:
I saw enough this year to think it's possible next season that O surprises us. I think those that say it's a certainty that he will fail are simply trying to fulfill their own prophecies.
But, I damned sure didn't see enough to start polishing up national championship trophies. The folks in here who have effectively become O pumpers are silly.
I just think we're in a limbo season. A season where there isn't enough to go on to be overly optimistic or pessimistic.
So. For me. In the absence of a definitive reason not to be, I'm entering this off season very hopeful about next.
We are returning like 40 players who played on defense(exaggeration LOL). And, theoretically, we have two guys who are supposed to have talent competing for the spot at QB. And, we seem to have gotten help in the trenches(not to mention the OL did improve as the season went along).
I'm content to go in to 2018 with that but with a cautious eye given O's lack of pedigree.
31
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:38 am to ShortyRob
quote:
His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
What is this handling of Canada situation you speak of? He was interested in a lower tier HC job, other than that it's nothing but TRant rumors baw.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:38 am to ShortyRob
O will be in trouble next year just by looking at the skill position players or lack of them..... one of the biggest gripes about Miles was player development... next year will tell the tale about O's ability to do this..... the schedule is pretty rough looking at it now.... again this years schedule is what it is... it's not O's fault the teams we played had bad years yet a ton on here say this year was not good because of the schedule... some LSU will never be satisfied.....
I'll be surprised if we win 9 games next year....
I'll be surprised if we win 9 games next year....
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:39 am to ShortyRob
I agree with everything you said and am of the exact opinion on next year.
I see no reason to constantly deride everything in order just to justify initial unhappiness. It’s become boring.
I see no reason to constantly deride everything in order just to justify initial unhappiness. It’s become boring.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:44 am to ShortyRob
I mostly agree with this assessment. The only thing I think is worth debating over is recruiting. I'm not so sure it's a positive just yet. We'll know more on NSD, but with Jimbo being so close now, it may end up hurting more than many think. We'll see.
I was a huge O detractor on this board from the time he was hired. I calmed down after BYU, but fired right back up after the MSU, Cuse, Troy, and Florida debacles. I do give O a lot of credit for holding the team together and not allowing the season to snowball out of control as if very well could have.
In general, like most fans I think, I'm at the "wait and see phase". I think we'll likely kick the shite out of ND as they always seem to be grossly overrated. I think Miami next year will give a good idea of what to expect. The schedule is brutal a frick next season, if O can post a similar record (9-3 or 10-2) next season, he'll have earned a 3rd. If the wheels fall off and they limp to a 8-4 / 7-5 season (both are very possible) then he may not make it past November.
I was a huge O detractor on this board from the time he was hired. I calmed down after BYU, but fired right back up after the MSU, Cuse, Troy, and Florida debacles. I do give O a lot of credit for holding the team together and not allowing the season to snowball out of control as if very well could have.
In general, like most fans I think, I'm at the "wait and see phase". I think we'll likely kick the shite out of ND as they always seem to be grossly overrated. I think Miami next year will give a good idea of what to expect. The schedule is brutal a frick next season, if O can post a similar record (9-3 or 10-2) next season, he'll have earned a 3rd. If the wheels fall off and they limp to a 8-4 / 7-5 season (both are very possible) then he may not make it past November.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:48 am to ShortyRob
tl;dr
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:50 am to ShortyRob
quote:
4. His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
What? He answered a reporter's question at a press conference. How was his handling of a situation that didn't exist asinine?
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:52 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:53 am to ShortyRob
Of course no one knows what will happen in18, but I stand by my assessment that 0 is not competent to be a HC in the SEC. That’s it.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:56 am to ShortyRob
A fair assessment.
I think this is a big deal. There are no real sexy recruits at this point, but it's easy to see what O is doing here. Last season we rebuilt the LB position and got some good OL prospects. This class is heavy on DL and OL. We will always get good DBs and strangely we find quality WRs despite our passing woes. RB was just not a strong or big crop this class, but we have some really solid targets next season.
Rather than reach on skill players he's building up front and that depth will pay off, especially in the SEC where you need the big uglies.
quote:
2. Recruiting. I know that this is one people are griping about but honestly, I was concerned recruiting could crater because of O's history. Instead, the class looks to be a decent class that maybe is a shade short of when we were at our best. And, it's filling needs which sometimes even our best recruiting did NOT do
I think this is a big deal. There are no real sexy recruits at this point, but it's easy to see what O is doing here. Last season we rebuilt the LB position and got some good OL prospects. This class is heavy on DL and OL. We will always get good DBs and strangely we find quality WRs despite our passing woes. RB was just not a strong or big crop this class, but we have some really solid targets next season.
Rather than reach on skill players he's building up front and that depth will pay off, especially in the SEC where you need the big uglies.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:02 am to ShortyRob
quote:
ShortyRob
I've always liked your takes...even though toward the end of the Miles run you seemed to become fricking unhinged, but whatever.
So I'll try and address some of the points you made if that's ok because you took the time to be reasonable and I respect you. quote:
I opposed hiring O. I STILL believe the choice was indefensible in terms of criteria.
quote:
That said, some hiring choices that are 100% defensible don't pan out and some that seem silly do. Sure. That's not a solid way to play the odds, but it happens.
No doubt. And here is where we can all disagree, but it's that undefinable percentage of times that this kind of gamble actually DOES work out that has some of us as concerned as we are. Yes...as you and others have said, now that we're here worrying isn't fixing it...but I still maintain that part of why we even got here was because fans supported this ridiculous hire and therefore fans need to keep being shown that it really was as bad as some made it out to be. Because if/when a change needs to be made, do you really want to be in a PR battle with local media who are in bad with the coach and who have been allowed to change the narrative some much that it's damn near impossible to pull the trigger on change? I don't. and back to your original point, if the percentage was 50-50 of hiring a shitty resume and having it work out I could back away and take the "wait and see" approach. But honestly, are we remotely at 50-50? Nah... It could miraculously be that rare exception where you hire a person who failed so spectacularly in their previous job but kill it at yours. But neither of us believe in "miracles" if I remember correctly...
quote:
Positives:
1. The team overall appeared to get better as the season progressed. Yes, I know our schedule helped, but, I still think it's very arguable that the team in November was well ahead of the team in September.
2. Recruiting. I know that this is one people are griping about but honestly, I was concerned recruiting could crater because of O's history. Instead, the class looks to be a decent class that maybe is a shade short of when we were at our best. And, it's filling needs which sometimes even our best recruiting did NOT do.
3. Recovery. The team could have totally folded after the Troy loss. We've certainly seen that happen to teams in college ball. That they didn't is a credit no matter who you want to give it to.
No real disagreements there. Only thing I'll point out is that while some (mostly those that fly back and forth between ecstasy and angst) seemed hellbent on declaring that we were destined for a 0-8 SEC record most seemed to realize that the team wasn't going to tank entirely. They were almost certainly not going to go win less in the SEC as some seemed eager ot predict, and many even pointed out that allowing that to become the assumption was going to make it seem like some huge turnaround when things didn't completely smash into the wall. FWIW, I didn't see that coming as a talking point, but I also never thought we'd tank entirely...at least not by game 4 of year one.
quote:
Negatives:
1. Well, you really can't accept MSU/Troy. That shite happens again next year and all the improvement as the season goes along in the world won't shine the turd.
2. In game decisions. Honestly, I wanted to put this in the positive but some of how he handled the QB situation this year was a real head scratcher. I was VERY over DE but, O still bungled the frick out of that a couple of times. It's kinda of a credit to DE that the dude didn't just fold up shop(especially after the Bama game)
3. The need to revamp how he was running the team after Troy. I mean, look. That's cool and it seemed to be the right call. But shite. That's why we didn't want to hire him. We don't need a guy trying to figure out the right way to be a head coach.....on the job!
4. His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
Agreed, especially with the notion of this Top 10 job being on the job training. Had he gone elsewhere and rebuilt his image as a full time head coach of his own program and done well, I'd have been much less apprehensive about him taking over ours. The reality is, every good thing he does at LSU is essentially the FIRST TIME he's doing it as a full time head coach, and that's frightening.
quote:
I saw enough this year to think it's possible next season that O surprises us. I think those that say it's a certainty that he will fail are simply trying to fulfill their own prophecies.
Certainty? Nah...but I really don;t think there are a bunch of people saying that there is 100% certainty that he will fail. but, if you put a gun to my head and told me had to make a prediction as to how this will ultimately turn out, I can't tell you I'd have to wonder for very long. The smart money, based on the information we have on hand, is that if he does succeed it will be the outlier in situations like this. I don't wish that or hope that, but that's what I think.
quote:
But, I damned sure didn't see enough to start polishing up national championship trophies. The folks in here who have effectively become O pumpers are silly.
Yup.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:10 am to ShortyRob
My biggest fear is due to how easy it is to win at LSU. See Les Miles. It is not hard to win 10 games year in and year out due to LSU’s recruiting advantages. Coach O will be at LSU for a long time and sadly I don’t see LSU winning a SEC or National Championship with him.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:36 am to ShortyRob
LSU will Never win the western division as long as he's in charge. This season is as good as it will Get.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 9:58 am to ShortyRob
[
Would there even be a Canada situation if coach had done what he said he was going to do and NOT stick his nose in the O?
The fact Coach O and his OC couldn't go into a office, lock the door, and settle whatever issues they had but needed the AD to somehow be a ref I find troubling, no matter the outcome.
quote:
His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
Would there even be a Canada situation if coach had done what he said he was going to do and NOT stick his nose in the O?
The fact Coach O and his OC couldn't go into a office, lock the door, and settle whatever issues they had but needed the AD to somehow be a ref I find troubling, no matter the outcome.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:01 am to ShortyRob
Good post, Shorty.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:05 am to ShortyRob
quote:
4. His handling of this Canada situation is completely asinine
all fair points but nobody really knows what happened with Canada. Its all conjecture. So you really cant have a solid objective assessment of the situation unless you are in the building
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:14 am to ShortyRob
I think we will be a good team next year. Only bad thing is we have about 6 other good teams in our schedule.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:20 am to ShortyRob
I agree with most of your posts. I think that he handled the QB situation perfectly though
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:24 am to ShortyRob
[quote]In game decisions. Honestly, I wanted to put this in the positive but some of how he handled the QB situation this year was a real head scratcher. I was VERY over DE but, O still bungled the frick out of that a couple of times. It's kinda of a credit to DE that the dude didn't just fold up shop(especially after the Bama game) [/quote/]
I don’t agree with this...Etling was not great and he killed us in the Bama game but he always seemed like our best option.
I thought we showed better in game adjustments all year with the Ms St game being the exception...we
Made significant halftime adjustments throughout the season...Coach O handled the clock very well all season and it was great to see...
I don’t agree with this...Etling was not great and he killed us in the Bama game but he always seemed like our best option.
I thought we showed better in game adjustments all year with the Ms St game being the exception...we
Made significant halftime adjustments throughout the season...Coach O handled the clock very well all season and it was great to see...
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:34 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I just think we're in a limbo season.
I hate to say it, but next year will be a limbo season, too.
Negatives:
-Thin on OL
-Decline at RB and WR
-First-year starter at QB
-Lose Arden Key
-Thin at CB for the first time in a while
-Still won't have a decent kicker
-Tough schedule (Miami, Auburn, Georgia, Alabama)
Positives:
-JUCO OL could fill gaps
-Jonathan Giles
-Cautiously optimistic about Brennan
-Some difference makers on defense (White, Delpit, Fehoko)
-Second year under Canada
-Get Georgia and Alabama at home
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 10:37 am
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