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Message

How did pulling out of Paris help Russia/Putin?
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:08 am
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:08 am
Everything Trump does is at the pleasure of Putin right? So how did this help Russia?
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:10 am to Cosmo
quote:
Everything Trump does is at the pleasure of Putin right? So how did this help Russia?
Clearly, Russia will now step in as the leader of the Paris accords.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:14 am to Cosmo
Pulling out let Putin catch his breath and regather himself before continuing his conquest through hacking. Even the world's greatest hacker has to rest.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:17 am to SidewalkDawg
I don't know how it plays into Russia at all, but a close friend of mine in the intelligence community and a Naval Officer had this to say about the matter when we were discussing it. For context, he is a Red-blooded Republican, lives and works in D.C. and is incredibly intelligent/informed on global and domestic policy.
His words, not mine: "The other signatories are continuing on without us and, yet again, are going to rely more on China. We accomplished nothing other than ceding another leadership role, this time in an accord that involved nearly every country on Earth. There are now three countries that are not participating in this agreement: Nicaragua, Syria, and...the United States. I don't like that company one bit. (Incidentally, this decision was made despite objections from CEO's, other Republicans, nearly every other world leader, some of the President's own advisors, and even the President's own daughter. So much for listening to advice...)
We've also begun slowly ceding leadership of NATO to other countries while emboldening Russia. What next?
Without any benefit to the United States whatsoever, we are simply ceding our global leadership role for free to our fiercest competitor: China (thus hurting American workers). The Chinese and Russians must be absolutely ecstatic. We are doing to ourselves what they have tried to do to us for decades.
It will cost us jobs, growth, credibility, and influence. Sad times.
Where is healthcare reform? Where is tax reform? Where is regulatory reform? No one at the White House even talks about these things."
His words, not mine: "The other signatories are continuing on without us and, yet again, are going to rely more on China. We accomplished nothing other than ceding another leadership role, this time in an accord that involved nearly every country on Earth. There are now three countries that are not participating in this agreement: Nicaragua, Syria, and...the United States. I don't like that company one bit. (Incidentally, this decision was made despite objections from CEO's, other Republicans, nearly every other world leader, some of the President's own advisors, and even the President's own daughter. So much for listening to advice...)
We've also begun slowly ceding leadership of NATO to other countries while emboldening Russia. What next?
Without any benefit to the United States whatsoever, we are simply ceding our global leadership role for free to our fiercest competitor: China (thus hurting American workers). The Chinese and Russians must be absolutely ecstatic. We are doing to ourselves what they have tried to do to us for decades.
It will cost us jobs, growth, credibility, and influence. Sad times.
Where is healthcare reform? Where is tax reform? Where is regulatory reform? No one at the White House even talks about these things."
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:19 am to Cosmo
quote:
Everything Trump does is at the pleasure of Putin right? So how did this help Russia?
Clearly pulling out of the Paris Accord reduced America's global influence to that of the Republic of the Congo. This allows Russia to step in and rule the world.
Did you not see the red lights communicating this plan from the white house last month?
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:23 am to Minden tiger
quote:
His words, not mine: "The other signatories are continuing on without us and, yet again, are going to rely more on China. We accomplished nothing other than ceding another leadership role, this time in an accord that involved nearly every country on Earth. There are now three countries that are not participating in this agreement: Nicaragua, Syria, and...the United States. I don't like that company one bit. (Incidentally, this decision was made despite objections from CEO's, other Republicans, nearly every other world leader, some of the President's own advisors, and even the President's own daughter. So much for listening to advice...)
We've also begun slowly ceding leadership of NATO to other countries while emboldening Russia. What next?
Without any benefit to the United States whatsoever, we are simply ceding our global leadership role for free to our fiercest competitor: China (thus hurting American workers). The Chinese and Russians must be absolutely ecstatic. We are doing to ourselves what they have tried to do to us for decades.
It will cost us jobs, growth, credibility, and influence. Sad times.
Where is healthcare reform? Where is tax reform? Where is regulatory reform? No one at the White House even talks about these things."
Literally none of that explained how...just a bunch of hyperbole.
I'm failing to see the logic in staying in a deal that I personally believe is bad for me, just to maintain a leadership role.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:26 am to Cosmo
It could potentially drive a further wedge in our diplomatic relationships with EU nations. Putin wants a weaker EU. For reference, Bush pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol strained diplomatic relationships with some of our allies according to Rice and Powell, among others.
To wit, I don't think Putin had any influence in Trump's decision.
To wit, I don't think Putin had any influence in Trump's decision.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:27 am to blowmeauburn
I didn't say it explained why, I just said that's what he has to say, based on extensive knowledge (compared to anyone on this board) of how this impacts the global power structure. He does this for a living, all I was doing was sharing his thoughts.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:28 am to Cosmo
Is this a joke? Look if you don't believe in climate change and that there are 150 genders you are an ignorant science denier and need to watch Bill nyes sex junk show on Netflix
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:31 am to Cosmo
The more the U.S. polluted...the faster Russia permafrost recedes and is open for petroleum reserves.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:38 am to Cosmo
quote:
How did pulling out of Paris help Russia/Putin?
It doesn't, especially when we re-enter the agreement with something remotely favorable to the USA.
Honestly, Obama and John Kerry truly must be the worst negotiators since the Delaware Indians sold Manhattan to the Dutch. I would not let Kerry negotiate my cable TV access... and sadly, I'm not exaggerating.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:39 am to Minden tiger
quote:The country which isn't making any changes to their pollution output until 2030, as per the accord?
The other signatories are continuing on without us and, yet again, are going to rely more on China.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:40 am to mahdragonz
quote:Please tell me that isn't a serious position.
The more the U.S. polluted...the faster Russia permafrost recedes and is open for petroleum reserves.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:41 am to AustinTigr
Doesn't working with 190 countries to preserve our planet for future generations favor the U.S.?
I am unaware of anything we should be negotiating for, but maybe you could enlighten me?
I am unaware of anything we should be negotiating for, but maybe you could enlighten me?
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:45 am to Minden tiger
quote:Yes, as long as the situation is fairvto all countries, including the US.
Doesn't working with 190 countries to preserve our planet for future generations favor the U.S.?
quote:Equal standards to be upheld by all countries. No special treatment for individual cases.
I am unaware of anything we should be negotiating for, but maybe you could enlighten me?
Decrease funding transfers to other countries. The goal should be reduction of output and it should be met without focusing on payments between countries.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:45 am to Minden tiger
quote:
intelligence community and a Naval Officer had this to say about the matter when we were discussing it. For context, he is a Red-blooded Republican, lives and works in D.C. and is incredibly intelligent/informed on global and domestic policy
Let me explain something to you as someone who has more experience with these folks than you'll ever have; they often know far less than they should in the areas they are paid to be SME's in and invariably know almost nothing outside of that narrow limit. One glaringly obvious question you failed to consider (like your Naval buddy) is that, if China had such capability to be a leader on this issue, why were they given such lax treatement in the Paris Accord? How could such an entity be a credible leader when the very foundation of the Paris Accord is built on the credibility of the major signatories to effect some tangible efforts in the public eye? Do you really think China would be so eager now to make up the funding from the US when they weren't before? Obvious questions but only if you actually use that little brain of yours.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:46 am to Clames
quote:Ding ding ding
if China had such capability to be a leader on this issue, why were they given such lax treatement in the Paris Accord? How could such an entity be a credible leader when the very foundation of the Paris Accord is built on the credibility of the major signatories to effect some tangible efforts in the public eye? Do you really think China would be so eager now to make up the funding from the US when they weren't before?
Posted on 6/2/17 at 9:50 am to Clames
quote:
Do you really think China would be so eager now to make up the funding from the US when they weren't before?
I think China will jump at the chance to make European Nations more dependent on them and less on us.
In regards to Scruffy, if we can negotiate those things you pointed out then that would be fantastic and I hope that's the angle the President is taking, but I still think the good outweighs the bad even in its current structure.
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:01 am to Minden tiger
quote:
Doesn't working with 190 countries to preserve our planet for future generations favor the U.S.?
I am unaware of anything we should be negotiating for, but maybe you could enlighten me?
The US was going to foot the majority of the bill for the rest of the underdeveloped countries. You honestly believe Chad, Niger, El Salvador, Mexico, Venezuela, etc almost 95% of those countries and leaders give a rats arse about the climate? It was all going to just be a cash grab behind the scenes while acting like they care about the globe.
Under the agreement Russia would be able to increase its carbon footprint by 50%. China similarly would be able to increase its footprint all while we would be decreasing ours.
It was a extremely unfair agreement. It needs to be rewritten if the US is going to jump back in it.
This post was edited on 6/2/17 at 10:03 am
Posted on 6/2/17 at 10:04 am to Minden tiger
quote:
I don't know how it plays into Russia at all, but a close friend of mine in the intelligence community and a Naval Officer had this to say about the matter when we were discussing it. For context, he is a Red-blooded Republican, lives and works in D.C. and is incredibly intelligent/informed on global and domestic policy.
His words, not mine: "The other signatories are continuing on without us and, yet again, are going to rely more on China. We accomplished nothing other than ceding another leadership role, this time in an accord that involved nearly every country on Earth. There are now three countries that are not participating in this agreement: Nicaragua, Syria, and...the United States. I don't like that company one bit. (Incidentally, this decision was made despite objections from CEO's, other Republicans, nearly every other world leader, some of the President's own advisors, and even the President's own daughter. So much for listening to advice...)
We've also begun slowly ceding leadership of NATO to other countries while emboldening Russia. What next?
Without any benefit to the United States whatsoever, we are simply ceding our global leadership role for free to our fiercest competitor: China (thus hurting American workers). The Chinese and Russians must be absolutely ecstatic. We are doing to ourselves what they have tried to do to us for decades.
It will cost us jobs, growth, credibility, and influence. Sad times.
Where is healthcare reform? Where is tax reform? Where is regulatory reform? No one at the White House even talks about these things."
Yep, I am gonna call bullshite on this one...
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