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re: Would it have been better if Germany would have won WW1? The First One.

Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:28 am to
Posted by OWLFAN86
The OT has made me richer
Member since Jun 2004
177168 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:28 am to
quote:

It was going to happen anyway. The United States is too well situated to not be a major world power.
assumption,
it didnt happen in a vacuum , A weakened Europe and a distracted Russia/Soviet union allowed the US to expand as quickly and as easily as it did

SOME revolution would have happened in Russia, the serfs were too many and too poor for something not to have occurred, Japan would have still been Japan.

And Germany already saw the US as a threat, if WW1 doesn't happen were dealing with a world superpower similar to the USSR after WW 2 only decades earlier
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:31 am
Posted by Placebeaux
Bobby Fischer Fan Club President
Member since Jun 2008
51852 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:29 am to
Yes but the financiers of the war were after much more and would not allow such a quick end to things. Basically the central banks are like the Don King of international conflict. Evil minds that plot destruction, sorcerer of death's construction.
Posted by SmoothOperator96
TD Premium Member
Member since Jan 2016
4056 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:30 am to
War has fueled many technological advances. And while the holocaust was an awful part of history, it did lead to many medical advances. You can sit here and do this with absolutely any historical event just based of the butterfly effect. I'm not gonna get into details because I love my job and if I started going further into detail, I'd sit here and type a novel.

Might come back and edit to elaborate.
Posted by cubsfan5150
Member since Nov 2007
15851 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:30 am to
No... the world is overpopulated as it is. We need another plague or large scale war.
Posted by AbitaFan08
Boston, MA
Member since Apr 2008
26932 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:31 am to
Deleted for dumbassery.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:35 am
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55544 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:31 am to
quote:

And Germany already saw the US as a threat, if WW1 doesn't happen were dealing with a world superpower similar to the USSR after WW 2 only decades earlier



Even during the early days of WWII, when Germany controlled much, much more of Europe than they did during WWI, their industrial output, and energy output, were WOEFUL compared to American native industry and global British sources.

The reason Hitler was trying to conquer Russia up to the Urals was to get his hand on sweet, sweet hydrocarbons. There is no way Germany is a global superpower without that, or with colonies that produced.
Posted by StrongBackWeakMind
Member since May 2014
22650 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:31 am to
quote:

assumption
Everything in this thread is going to be an assumption. We can just disregard that retort.

I'll reiterate. The United States is too well situated to not be a major world power. Too big with too many resources. The World Wars turned the US into a major world power much more quickly than it would have naturally happened, but it was going to happen anyway.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:36 am
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124955 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:31 am to
quote:

Evil minds that plot destruction,

sorcerer of death's construction

Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
124955 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:32 am to
quote:

sure, Unless you were a Jew, black, gay, disabled, Slavic, etc......



What the frick are you talking about?

Can you people not tell the difference between a 1 and a 2?
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:33 am
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55544 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:32 am to
Kaiser Wilhelm was a real mensch.
Posted by AbitaFan08
Boston, MA
Member since Apr 2008
26932 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:33 am to
quote:

What the frick are you talking about?


He was just saying the argument was how it could have been better for civilization if Germany had won the war early on. I just think a lot of the types of people that would have been sent to concentration camps may have felt differently.

quote:

Can you people not tell the difference between a 1 and a 2?


Ah shite, that's on me. My bad. I'm super hung over today, cut me a break.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:34 am
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55544 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:34 am to
WWI, bruh. WWI.

Addendum: The Nazis didn't really fire up the concentration camps to a major degree until '43 or so, when they realized they were fricked. Had they won 'early', I think there would have been a different outcome for the prisoners, but not likely a rosy one.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:36 am
Posted by StrongBackWeakMind
Member since May 2014
22650 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:37 am to
quote:

Ah shite, that's on me.
Like the receiver that drops the wide open pass and tells the QB "my bad, that's on me."

No shite.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:38 am
Posted by AbitaFan08
Boston, MA
Member since Apr 2008
26932 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:39 am to
You know what? Next time you're hung over, I hope someone pisses in your Cheerios too.
Posted by StrongBackWeakMind
Member since May 2014
22650 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:42 am to
Just messing with you.
Posted by AbitaFan08
Boston, MA
Member since Apr 2008
26932 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:43 am to
I know, and I deserved it.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:47 am to
quote:

The Middle East is still under Ottoman control, so maybe the tribalism doesn't turn the region into such a hotbed.


Sure looks like a good premise. We can't go back though.

Plus, the OP did not mention the 27 million dead WW II Russians, the 3 million dead WW II Polish, the 3 million dead pogrom/WW II Jews and the 500,000 dead WW II gypsies. 25 million dead Germans too.

Also worth it for just not having the Israeli vs Islam issue dogging us all.

PS. Greece got its freedom by armed revolution from the Ottoman Empire in the 1830's.

The Ottoman Emperor would be rich as Croesus. oil.





Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17164 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:49 am to
I doubt Britain would have ever surrendered but they most likely would have negotiated a truce.

The Depression was not caused by WWI. It was caused by piss poor financial management policies within the large banks leading to overleveraged borrowers, currency shortages, and stock market crashes.

We were dangerously close to repeating history in 2008 FWIW

Germany would not have conquered Russia. The Bolsheviks were well on their way to taking power. Germany would have aided their take over in exchange for advantageous treaty terms.

Ottoman would be toast but I wonder how Europe would have treated the mideast if they were able to focus their attention on it instead of postwar Germany.

There would be NO ISRAEL leading to generations of muslims feeling "oppressed" and fueling terror.

This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:53 am
Posted by SmoothOperator96
TD Premium Member
Member since Jan 2016
4056 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:49 am to
Maybe Germany doesn't have the urge to take over Europe because it's implied they already have it. There's no telling. It's all just theoretical scenarios. For all we know, they take over Europe and use their empire for economical gains as opposed to territorial gains.

Or maybe they take over Europe, build a super army and go take over Russia.
The possibilities are endless. Which is why history is such a beautiful thing. Everything from before your time and during your time has lead to where you're standing or sitting at this moment. Every little detail matters.
Changing the subject, let's go back to roughly July 1888. If Hitler's dad pulls out, hitlers never born. Or if a different sperm cell (microscopic) reached the egg, the entire course of history is changed.

Every little detail matters in history. And I don't know if the world would be "better" persay. Definitely nothing like it is now. We'd probably a lot further back technology wise. We probably wouldn't have computers, smartphones, etc yet.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:52 am
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
16934 posts
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:52 am to
Keeps the United States out of becoming an interventionist, Imperial imitation. Conceivably prevents the conditions necessary for Bolshevist takeover over of Russia. Spares the destruction of European order and the roughly 100 years of political stability among the major European powers, save the Frano-Prussian War. Preserves the legitimacy of authoritarian rule in several of the major European powers.

It doesn't preclude potential major war outbreaks amongst the major powers in future scenarios though. Depending on your particular polutical worldview, you may view the potential of this altered geopolitical hypothetical as more or less favorable. Those who think European institutions of power over the world were inherently evil and repressive will be unlikely to see it as a positive. Those who think the collapse of Western power created tremendous instability that exceeded the theoretical positives of independence for colonized nations will be inclined to disagree.

If one looks at it purely from the Western-centric POV, I think the answer is that it almost certainly would have benefited the Western world to either not have engaged in the conflict at all or not have had it end in the de facto unconditional defeat of Germany that it did.
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