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re: 73 Years ago today: Battle of Stalingrad ends with the surrender of 6th Army
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:22 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:22 am to Darth_Vader
Rommels retreat from North Africa took place the year before, right? Paulus learned well from Rommels disobeying of Hitlers orders.
0
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:27 am to Darth_Vader
You do know he made a big speech about it? 
I still believe it was his biggest blunder once the war got rolling. In the end, maybe he his fears would have proven right and the US would have entered the war anyway, but Roosevelt had legitimate opposition in Congress to involving the US in the European conflict unprovoked.
I still believe it was his biggest blunder once the war got rolling. In the end, maybe he his fears would have proven right and the US would have entered the war anyway, but Roosevelt had legitimate opposition in Congress to involving the US in the European conflict unprovoked.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:32 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
I think you would love the "Ghosts of the Osfront" series by Dan Carlin. Don't think its offered for free anymore, though. Might have to buy it.
Personally, I wasn't impressed with Ghosts of the Ostfront at all. It was rushed and wasn't exhaustive at all. It's not bad for people who aren't terribly familiar with Eastern Front but I think Darth would probably feel the same way about it as I did.
Now Countdown to Armageddon was fantastic. Carlin admitted that even it wasn't exhaustive enough and it was about 5 times longer than Ghosts of the Ostfront.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:33 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
I think you would love the "Ghosts of the Osfront" series by Dan Carlin. Don't think its offered for free anymore, though. Might have to buy it.
Personally, I wasn't impressed with Ghosts of the Ostfront at all. It was rushed and wasn't exhaustive at all. It's not bad for people who aren't terribly familiar with Eastern Front but I think Darth would probably feel the same way about it as I did.
Now Countdown to Armageddon was fantastic. Carlin admitted that even it wasn't exhaustive enough and it was about 5 times longer than Ghosts of the Ostfront.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:33 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Meh, Hitler basically fired his top general and he considered himself one. The most eye opening impact for me is that if Hitler would have listened to his top brass they probably would've won the war.
Exactly. In 1943, I believe, he made himself the German equivalent of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He was a corporal in WW1 and had no clue concerning strategic war.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:33 am to ChewyDante
quote:
You do know he made a big speech about it?
Indeed he did, at the Reichstag. And they greeted the news of war with the US with thunderous applause.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:35 am to Darth_Vader
If interested, William Craig's Enemy at the Gates is an excellent read. Craig spent considerable time researching the book, interviewing survivors on all sides shortly after the war ended.
Ignore the movie its hokum and dramatized for the Hollywood crowd. Also the movie is only a few pages in a couple of chapters in a book of almost 500pp.
Craig did an excellent job, interviewing and researching for this book. However, following the war it was easier to access those in the West than it was those in the East. So, he missed out slightly on the intimate Russian perspective that he was able to capture with the Germans.
Ignore the movie its hokum and dramatized for the Hollywood crowd. Also the movie is only a few pages in a couple of chapters in a book of almost 500pp.
Craig did an excellent job, interviewing and researching for this book. However, following the war it was easier to access those in the West than it was those in the East. So, he missed out slightly on the intimate Russian perspective that he was able to capture with the Germans.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:38 am to ChewyDante
quote:
Personally, I wasn't impressed with Ghosts of the Ostfront at all. It was rushed and wasn't exhaustive at all. It's not bad for people who aren't terribly familiar with Eastern Front but I think Darth would probably feel the same way about it as I did.
Well damn. I was hoping it would be a more detailed podcast.
quote:
Countdown to Armageddon was fantastic. Carlin admitted that even it wasn't exhaustive enough and it was about 5 times longer than Ghosts of the Ostfront.
I freaking loved Countdown to Armageddon. In fact I've enjoyed all Dan Carlin's podcasts that I've listened to this far. Prophets of Doom and the series on the Mongols (King of Kings I think it was called) are the other ones I've listened to so far.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:41 am to Darth_Vader
It seems like for a long long time the general public knew next to nothing about the Eastern Front. And still today mentions of it in the popular culture are few and far between - things like Enemy at the Gate being the exception.
It's understandable with the struggle against communism and all But there just seems to be such an untapped reservoir of history there.
It's understandable with the struggle against communism and all But there just seems to be such an untapped reservoir of history there.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:43 am to stat19
quote:
interested, William Craig's Enemy at the Gates is an excellent read. Craig spent considerable time researching the book, interviewing survivors on all sides shortly after the war ended.
Great book. It was one of the first books I read on Stalingrad when I was a kid.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:44 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
One cannot understand WW 2 without understanding the German casualties in that battle and the effect of these losses for the remainder of the war. The Germans and their allies lost over 850,000 men at Stalingrad. In comparison, US casualties at the Battle of the Bulge, the greatest losses in any operation of that war were approximately 89,500. 'Catastrophic' doesn't come close.
Correct. Funny how US schools don't really teach how relevant Russia was to WWII. It's mostly just a constant parade of rah rah D-Day stuff.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:48 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Correct. Funny how US schools don't really teach how relevant Russia was to WWII. It's mostly just a constant parade of rah rah D-Day stuff.
That's why you can't rely on what they teach in school, even at the collegiate level, to learn about history. All they do is scratch the surface on most subjects. And what's worse is they usual put a heavy political slant on what they teach.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:48 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Great book.
Speaking of which - Barbarossa by Alan Clark is one of the most comprehensive books on the Eastern Front - and explains the complicated rivalries/disconnects from the highest levels down to the army/corps level.
It is hefty. It is more or less written with an audience of historians and military officers, but I can't recall a better sourced or more thorough book on a military operation.
Paperback at Amazon
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:50 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
how relevant Russia was to WWII.
They weren't great tacticians exactly. They just kept pushing more fodder towards the cannons until they overwhelmed them. I give credit to the average Russian soldier, but General January won the war for them.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 10:55 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Speaking of which - Barbarossa by Alan Clark is one of the most comprehensive books on the Eastern Front - and explains the complicated rivalries/disconnects from the highest levels down to the army/corps level.
It is hefty. It is more or less written with an audience of historians and military officers, but I can't recall a better sourced or more thorough book on a military operation.
Another great book on the Eastern Front. I'd also add John Erickson's series as well, The Road to Stalingrad and The Road to Berlin.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 11:07 am to CadesCove
quote:
They weren't great tacticians exactly. They just kept pushing more fodder towards the cannons until they overwhelmed them. I give credit to the average Russian soldier, but General January won the war for them.
No doubt. Of course, General January wasn't exactly a secret, which makes Barbarossa all the more perplexing.
Didn't Carlin say in one of those episodes that the German generals came to believe that the Soviet strategy was "count the number of Germans across the way, then count the number of bullets we have, and as long as we have at least one more bullet, let's engage them"?
Posted on 2/2/16 at 11:11 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Didn't Carlin say in one of those episodes that the German generals came to believe that the Soviet strategy was "count the number of Germans across the way, then count the number of bullets we have, and as long as we have at least one more bullet, let's engage them"?
Relentless pressure.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 11:13 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Of course, General January wasn't exactly a secret, which makes Barbarossa all the more perplexing.
Hitler believed that Blitzkrieg would work in Russia and they would have things sewed up long before winter truly set in. I have read that he genuinely believed that the Russian people wouldn't fight for the Soviets and would help his forces.
Posted on 2/2/16 at 11:14 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
I think you would love the "Ghosts of the Osfront" series by Dan Carlin. Don't think its offered for free anymore, though. Might have to buy it.
As soon as I saw this post, I decided to reply. I apologize if it has been discussed a lot in the following replies. I just finished this about 2 weeks ago. It was great. Like most, I didn't have much knowledge of the Eastern Front. History classes mostly mention the western. It was a very entertaining podcast. It is amazing how much worse the casualties were on the eastern front.
For anyone that has listened to Dan Carlin podcasts, I'd highly recommend going to his site and just purchasing the set with about 50 podcasts. After finishing all of his free stuff (Blueprint for Armegeddon about WWI is what got me hooked), I just couldn't stop listening.
This post was edited on 2/2/16 at 11:15 am
Posted on 2/2/16 at 11:16 am to tidalmouse
quote:
Stalin had an unending supply of Soldiers.
He had millions of Siberians in reserve just frothing at the mouth to attack in winter with their skis and reindeer. Hitler was nuts to think anyone would ever hold ground that deep into mother Russia.
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