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re: Asik on the Trade Block
Posted on 12/16/15 at 10:09 am to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 12/16/15 at 10:09 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We should have signed a minimum guy, with the intent on him not being on the team long
EXCEPT and this is a HUGE EXCEPT #BussinessReasons The team could not risk taking a step back. They fired a coach they were still paying who improbably got the team to the playoffs and then hired Gentry and doubled down on continuity. All these moves we talk about including tanking are not the kind of moves people without long term security can make. I've defended Demps a lot over the years but I was pro firing him because he hadn't done enough to earn a full recommitment, and if he's only got a partial commitment he's going to lean more towards short term gains.
This post was edited on 12/16/15 at 10:11 am
1
Posted on 12/16/15 at 10:24 am to TigerinATL
quote:
The team could not risk taking a step back
I understand this, but the fact that they think Asik is some huge upgrade over Biyombo or Seraphin is just retarded.
They viewed Biyombo/Seraphin as a big step backwards compared to Asik, and that's where the problem therein lies.
Maybe they signed him with the intent on trading him all along, and didn't realize he'd be this bad, which is also dumb.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 11:04 am to TeddyPadillac
I said this back in July before the Asik contract:
And this after the Asik contract:
I was told I overvalued Biyombo and responded that our fans and Dell overvalued Asik. How can casual fans see the writing on the wall and not our GM????
Some people immediately started trying to justify the Asik deal, but it was unjustifiable in my mind.
quote:
I think he [Biyombo] would excel at C by committee with AA. You have both an offensive and defensive minded big man. You get superior rim protection, athleticism, and energy with Biyombo over Asik, but lose out on rebounds. Signing AA and Biyombo over Asik also gives you max flexibility as either contract will be easy to move.
And this after the Asik contract:
quote:
Bismack Biyombo signed for $6M over 2 years in Toronto. I think with better coaching and development than he received in Charlotte, he could have quickly become an Asik replacement. Considerably more athletic, younger, and cheaper. He could have given you 90% of what Asik does at 1/3 the cost with higher long term upside: slightly worse rebounder, but better finisher and shot blocker plus runs the floor much better.
I was told I overvalued Biyombo and responded that our fans and Dell overvalued Asik. How can casual fans see the writing on the wall and not our GM????
Some people immediately started trying to justify the Asik deal, but it was unjustifiable in my mind.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 11:22 am to NOFOX
quote:
Some people immediately started trying to justify the Asik deal, but it was unjustifiable in my mind.
I'm with you.
I made of list of like 30 centers who were at minimum as good or better than Asik. He has one of the worst shooting %'s of all centers in the league. I was only able to find like 3 guys with a worse shooting %, and Asik only took like 5 shots from outside 2-3 feet.
He's a career 52% shooter, which is pathetic.
He's at a whopping 37% this year. His offense is so terrible it almost negates whatever he brings on defense. And his defense isn't worth a shite this year either, so he's pretty much worthless.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 11:25 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
And his defense isn't worth a shite this year either, so he's pretty much worthless.
The odd thing is, in spurts he looks faster and more athletic than I've ever seen him. Gyno is probably right, he needs more minutes to get more of a rythm, especially if we're trying to trade him. Getting steady minutes instead of spread out sporadic minutes has helped Jrue start playing a lot better.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 11:25 am to novowels
The sixers or David khan would absolutely make this happen.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 11:46 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
He's a career 52% shooter, which is pathetic.
He's at a whopping 37% this year. His offense is so terrible it almost negates whatever he brings on defense. And his defense isn't worth a shite this year either, so he's pretty much worthless.
You realize Biyombo's career shooting is only 49.7%. His offense is horrible as well.
his FG% is putrid this year, but this is the 2nd lowest amount of minutes played in his career. Jrue shot pretty horribly to start when he couldn't get into rhythm.
I wanted to keep Asik, but if you were going to use him like this than it was a bad move. Give me a 25 minute 7/7 Asik with bad hands on this contract playing similar defense like last year and I'm okay with that. Look at what he did vs Cleveland when he was given actual consistency.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:08 pm to htran90
quote:
You realize Biyombo's career shooting is only 49.7%. His offense is horrible as well.
so how is he any different than Asik, other than the huge salary difference?
And if i remember correctly, Biyombo and Pachulia were the two that were as bad as Asik.
My whole point was Asik is no better than Biyombo or Seraphin, yet he makes $4 million more than both of them combined.
quote:
Look at what he did vs Cleveland when he was given actual consistency.
so we are going to pay him $10 million a year for the next 4 years to help us win maybe 2-3 games a year? He is usually good when having to guard big slow centers, like Mozgov. He's usually good against Marc Gasol but was putrid against him this year.
How many times last year did he get blocked going up for a dunk?
How many times did he have smaller players come in and tip a rebound away from him that should have been his?
His skills are worth $3-4 million a year compared to the rest of the centers in the NBA. he can think Thibodau for his financial success.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:15 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
He's usually good against Marc Gasol but was putrid against him this year.
Go back and watch that game. He hardly played while Gasol butt fricked Gentry.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:24 pm to Jester
quote:
Go back and watch that game. He hardly played while Gasol butt fricked Gentry.
I did watch the game. He didnt deserve to play more. He played for 5 minutes, got two fouls, posted a -10 +/- and had zero stats.
Gasol was pretty awesome that game, but in the little while Asik was in, he did nothing close to stop him.
In his defense, Asik usually plays well against them, and if i remember correctly we've had a winning record against them with Asik.
Something is wrong with him. He's just simply not the same player he was 3 or 4 years ago. he's declined in a year or two like you'd expect to happen over 7-8 years for an average centers career. He's not even that old, i just think his body has pretty much told him i'm ready to quit all this running shite.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:36 pm to novowels
At some point this year, my mom asked me to tell her (again) what value Asik brings to the table. I started explaining and then thought, "What the hell am I doing? I don't even believe this anymore."
Chicago Asik had value. Houston Asik had value. But this version of Asik has none.
Gentry compared him to Bogut at the beginning of the year because Asik is a good defender and can screen well, but there are major differences:
1) Bogut can pass
2) Bogut can set high screens, flare screens for GS's shooters, all of which require his man to help or force you to watch GS bomb you into oblivion.
Omer cannot pass and is setting screens for people who opposing teams are not afraid to leave open. Throw in Gee/Cunningham/guys who teams aren't afraid to leave to double, and you have the recipe for catastrophe. There's very often no shooting on the weak side of the floor and it's not like our players are adept skip passers anyway. So there's literally nothing holding weakside defenders at bay, which makes it easier for them to double and also easier for them to rebound (see our OReb rate, which is certainly not just a function of "transition defense").
There is a way to construct an offense where Asik isn't such a gigantic liability. But we don't have anything close to the personnel and does Asik really give enough to make designing a specific way worth it? I don't think so.
Overall, there is a serious lack of passing ability, length/athleticism at the wing, and it just looks so damn ugly.
This team has fallen so far short of national/local expectations and it's so depressing.
Chicago Asik had value. Houston Asik had value. But this version of Asik has none.
Gentry compared him to Bogut at the beginning of the year because Asik is a good defender and can screen well, but there are major differences:
1) Bogut can pass
2) Bogut can set high screens, flare screens for GS's shooters, all of which require his man to help or force you to watch GS bomb you into oblivion.
Omer cannot pass and is setting screens for people who opposing teams are not afraid to leave open. Throw in Gee/Cunningham/guys who teams aren't afraid to leave to double, and you have the recipe for catastrophe. There's very often no shooting on the weak side of the floor and it's not like our players are adept skip passers anyway. So there's literally nothing holding weakside defenders at bay, which makes it easier for them to double and also easier for them to rebound (see our OReb rate, which is certainly not just a function of "transition defense").
There is a way to construct an offense where Asik isn't such a gigantic liability. But we don't have anything close to the personnel and does Asik really give enough to make designing a specific way worth it? I don't think so.
Overall, there is a serious lack of passing ability, length/athleticism at the wing, and it just looks so damn ugly.
This team has fallen so far short of national/local expectations and it's so depressing.
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