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1
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:34 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
If someone advances the view of gender distinctions rooted in biology that have been accepted from Millenia and does not think that they should be changed to incorporate what we have ALWAYS seen as mental illness, then they are the one with "major issues."
So you get to appeal to science if you think it helps your argument? Bruce Jenner's trans-genderism is very likely itself rooted in biology. Does that not make you stop and think at all about your rantings?
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:36 pm to tigerpimpbot
quote:
You disposed of the mental illness argument. So how will ala change his tune to let us know society will crumble if nobody gives a shite about Bruce Jenner's gender identification.
No he didn't. He quoted Kinsey, whose research has been largely rejected on many fronts as being incredibly biased.
We can all quote mine on this as long as we want. It doesn't change the fact that a man who believes that he is a woman on the inside is suffering from a disorder of some kind. A society that declares this to be a legitimate expression of gender is a society that suffers from a similar disorder.
And, again, I do not care what people choose to do personally. They can do what they want. But, we never stop there. We have to have full inclusion of their perspective and a full reordering of society to accomodate it and then any barriers that exists along any other lines to their full inclusion are seen as marks of oppression that must be obliterated so that we can be an equal and welcoming society.
If social progressives were at all interested in "live and let live," then I wouldn't care one way or another. But, that is absolutely NOT their perspective and they seem to latch on to these issues like a pit bull until the rest of the culture follows suit.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:37 pm to RedRifle
And if this wasn't bad enough, he smokes 
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:39 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
No he didn't. He quoted Kinsey, whose research has been largely rejected on many fronts as being incredibly biased.
The first paragraph isn't Kinsey, though.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:41 pm to fillmoregandt
Otherkin.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:43 pm to SabiDojo
Dr. Paul McHugh, former Psychiatrist in Chief at Johns Hopkins comes to a completely different conclusion and cites several studies to back up his claims.
LINK
Like I said. There is a "study" to back up every side of this argument. But, claiming that the "science" is decided is flat out wrong.
Moving transgenderism out of the realm of "mental disorder" and into the realm of an actual biological gender classification is also wrong.
LINK
Like I said. There is a "study" to back up every side of this argument. But, claiming that the "science" is decided is flat out wrong.
Moving transgenderism out of the realm of "mental disorder" and into the realm of an actual biological gender classification is also wrong.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:47 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
quote: If someone advances the view of gender distinctions rooted in biology that have been accepted from Millenia and does not think that they should be changed to incorporate what we have ALWAYS seen as mental illness, then they are the one with "major issues."
So you get to appeal to science if you think it helps your argument? Bruce Jenner's trans-genderism is very likely itself rooted in biology. Does that not make you stop and think at all about your rantings?
One, I am not ranting. I am discussing. If we were in the same room you would hear me talking calmly. I am really not at all upset. If you think that someone expressing an opinion different for yours is "ranting," perhaps you should think about that.
Two, the X and Y chromosomes that dictate human sexuality are not subject to a study that a guy did in Europe 60 years ago. It is pretty settled.
The fact that you are so quick to jump on a couple of paragraphs quoted and then dismiss the entire realm of knowledge on human sexuality acquired over millenia tells me that you are fundamentally biased and are just looking for something to back up what you already think.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:49 pm to Rouge
If he's happy then cool.
I'm just not sure if this is because he was around a bunch of crazy women and assumed if he can't beat them then join em and become one.
I'm just not sure if this is because he was around a bunch of crazy women and assumed if he can't beat them then join em and become one.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:50 pm to AlaTiger
Nice link
ETA: :sarcasm
ETA: :sarcasm
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:51 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
My point is that when transgenderism is used to shatter gender distinctions completely, it affects the entire society and sows confusion in many ways. Just being masculine is seen as engaging in oppression. We are already seeing this in education, how boys are allowed to play, expectations in marriage (if marriage happens at all), anger among young men over role confusion, and many other things.
Agree. It's the general weakening of society, the runaway decadence that precedes the fall. They think they're going to soften us all up and make us receptive to hard left policies, but what we are going to get instead is the caliphate.
The Muslims are going to roll right over us, just like Rome rolled over Etruria and Athens, just like the hordes rolled over Rome. It's a never-ending cycle.
Yeah, go chop your dicks off. It's perfectly normal. What prisoners these people must have been for most of history when the technology to change them didn't exist.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:52 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
We have to have full inclusion of their perspective and a full reordering of society to accomodate it and then any barriers that exists along any other lines to their full inclusion are seen as marks of oppression that must be obliterated so that we can be an equal and welcoming society.
No one expects full inclusion. You can feel the way you want to feel about it and others can feel about it the way they want to and that's where it ends.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:53 pm to lsupride87
quote:
You sir are an idiot Because I dont give a shite about what some random person does with their personal life, means I wont discipline my children. Sweet argument bro
You are telling him that he can't care. You are trying to enforce your belief system on him.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:53 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
Two, the X and Y chromosomes that dictate human sexuality are not subject to a study that a guy did in Europe 60 years ago. It is pretty settled.
We are talking gender and not sexuality. Who's confused?
quote:
The fact that you are so quick to jump on a couple of paragraphs quoted and then dismiss the entire realm of knowledge on human sexuality acquired over millenia tells me that you are fundamentally biased and are just looking for something to back up what you already think.
I didn't jump on any paragraphs. All I know is that human sexuality has proven to be a very difficult thing to pigeon-hole. It's a spectrum. I have no trouble whatsoever believing that gender follows a similar path. I have personally witnessed parents having to deal with this issue. And I can tell you - disorder or not - the answer is not to try to "force" someone to be something they are not. I'm willing to bet that Jenner felt this way in 1976 as well. The unhealthy path has been squelching his true feelings for so many years.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:54 pm to UL-SabanRival
quote:
Agree. It's the general weakening of society, the runaway decadence that precedes the fall. They think they're going to soften us all up and make us receptive to hard left policies, but what we are going to get instead is the caliphate.
The Muslims are going to roll right over us, just like Rome rolled over Etruria and Athens, just like the hordes rolled over Rome. It's a never-ending cycle.
Yeah, go chop your dicks off. It's perfectly normal. What prisoners these people must have been for most of history when the technology to change them didn't exist
America's position in the world has never been more dominant or more secure. You keep waiting for the fall. I and the other capitalists will be profiting from continued strength.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:55 pm to moneyg
quote:No, I was simply asking why does he care?
You are telling him that he can't care
quote:He can care if he wants. I was only intrigued as why he does. Regardless, he jumped the shark by saying myself and others would not teach our kids right from wrong and would be terrible parents
You are trying to enforce your belief system on him.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:56 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
quote:
We have to have full inclusion of their perspective and a full reordering of society to accomodate it and then any barriers that exists along any other lines to their full inclusion are seen as marks of oppression that must be obliterated so that we can be an equal and welcoming society.
No one expects full inclusion. You can feel the way you want to feel about it and others can feel about it the way they want to and that's where it ends.
No. That isn't where it ends. If it ende there, I would be fine. I am happy to live in a pluralistic society and I have no problem with people doing what they want to do. There are all kinds of mental disorders.
Just don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining.
It never ends with "live and let live." It always includes elimination of any kind of opposition to the normality of what is being promoted. That is why the Time article called Transgenderism the New Civil Rights Frontier.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:59 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
It always includes elimination of any kind of opposition to the normality of what is being promoted.
What is the nature of your "opposition"? How would this play out in a real world scenario?
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:I think it's way more likely that the culture surrounding him convinced him to say this. After all, it's more acceptable if it's something you had no control over. Personally, I don't think everyone was "born that way."
I'm guessing that when Jenner talks, he is going to say that he ALWAYS felt like this, which means he was forced to quash it (and probably suffer a lot of mental anguish) instead of coming out decades ago.
Not that it matters. People can do what they like. Just don't expect me to applaud and celebrate them for it.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
We are talking gender and not sexuality. Who's confused?
quote:
I didn't jump on any paragraphs. All I know is that human sexuality has proven to be a very difficult thing to pigeon-hole. It's a spectrum.
Apprently, you are.
quote:
I have no trouble whatsoever believing that gender follows a similar path.
Sure it can if there is a dissassociation between the two in a person's mind, which we would call a "mental disorder." It does not change the X and Y chromosome.
I get it. You think that gender is a social construct. There are lots of people who think that. I think that they are dead wrong and that that belief has extreme consequences and is not value neutral.
quote:
I have personally witnessed parents having to deal with this issue. And I can tell you - disorder or not - the answer is not to try to "force" someone to be something they are not. I'm willing to bet that Jenner felt this way in 1976 as well. The unhealthy path has been squelching his true feelings for so many years.
I have as well. I am not ignorant on this issue. And, no one in this thread has said that anyone should be "forced" to do anything different than what they want to do. Please show me where I said that? Jenner and anyone else can do what they want to do. But, it is a mental disorder and continuing to recognize that puts the behavior and identity confusion where it belongs. It also helps people recognize that not every feeling is something that should be acted on so that a person can be healthy. Not all desires are good for a person.
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